Can We Just Agree That Y'all Dont Know What Classic Means?
On SOHH, people seem to have a f*cked up idea of what the word "classic" means.
Classic is not something decided by one or two people. Classic is decided by generations. Good or bad, if something stands the test of time, and continues to endure in value, it is therefore classic. Just because YOU like it or don't like it, does not decide whether or not it is classic, just your own artistic taste.
So, the idea that "Paid In Full" or "It Takes A Nation of Millions. . . ." or "All Eyez On Me" are not classic, when generations of people consider them the standards of what Hip-Hop is and should be is idiotic. There are such things as classic artists, movies, and rap albums. You don't get to decide which ones are though. Time does.
Main Entry:
1clas·sic Listen to the pronunciation of 1classic
Pronunciation:
\ˈkla-sik\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
French or Latin; French classique, from Latin classicus of the highest class of Roman citizens, of the first rank, from classis
Date:
circa 1604
1 a: serving as a standard of excellence : of recognized value <classic literary works> b: traditional, enduring
Run-DMC's classic, regardless of what some 15 year old with a MAC thinks. Same goes for Public Enemy, NWA, 2pac, Biggie, and all the other artists who have songs that pass from generation to generation.
After someone on SOHH said the movie "Finding Forrester" was CLASSIC i began to think then that many just don't know how to separate classic from just bein good or even OK.
truth is, i aint take tha time to bump one 80's hip hop album, i guess i lost,
P.S. Fucc da 80's
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the line between good and classic is blurred on this site. and then you get the usual "its better than everything that comes out these days". that argument is flawed....there were a lot of good releases that came out last year and the one before. its stans that be in love with their fav rapper so much that every release from him is the breath of god on wax.
truth is, i aint take tha time to bump one 80's hip hop album, i guess i lost,
P.S. Fucc da 80's
yup
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1 a: serving as a standard of excellence : of recognized value <classic literary works> b: traditional, enduring
Run-DMC's classic, regardless of what some 15 year old with a MAC thinks. Same goes for Public Enemy, NWA, 2pac, Biggie, and all the other artists who have songs that pass from generation to generation.
You're the same person that posted about 20 albums as classics dropped in 1991, alone and about 200 in the decade of 90s. That defeats the whole definition of classic. 20 albums can't serve as a standard of excellence. Half those albums don't stand the test of time ,because half those albums get no play nowadays or even 3 years after they dropped.
lmao @ arrested developments and them other sh!ts you dropped.
You're the same person that posted about 20 albums as classics dropped in 1991, alone and about 200 in the decade of 90s. That defeats the whole definition of classic. 20 albums can't serve as a standard of excellence. Half those albums don't stand the test of time ,because half those albums get no play nowadays or even 3 years after they dropped.
lmao @ arrested developments and them other sh!ts you dropped.
/shut down sohh
Once again, you have no idea what the f*ck are you talking about? REad The Source's 100 Best Rap Albums ever released issue, and any best of all-time records issue, and those records will be on there. Just like there was a period in the '60, in which everything the Rolling Stones or Temptatations, or Motown touched was considered classic, that's what Hip-Hop used to be, that's what I'm trying to tell ignoramouses like you. There are "classic" eras, in which a lot of classic songs and albums come out.
I named a bunch of albums that you can look up on any music site on the internet, or any magazine's archives and see catalogued as classic, why? Because they're considered great works of all-time. People still talk about these records. Maybe not your crackbaby ass friends who think that 50 Cent's an "old-school" artist. But people who are knowledgable about music and Hip-Hop consider them classic.
Souljah Boy will never accomplish what those records did critically or in terms of what they mean to Hip-Hop or music in general. He's gonna be like Hammer, laughed at 10 years from now, instead of making respected music.
When the history of Hip-Hop book is written, they're gonna talk about critically acclaimed records like Arrested Development's record, which won Grammy's, back when rappers didn't win Grammy's, except Will SMith. Just say, you don't bump it, but I hear "Tennessee" and "Everyday People" all of the time, considering that these are 15-16 year old songs, even on the radio, especially on the "Jack" stations that play every type of music.
Classic is not something decided by one or two people. Classic is decided by generations
dog
am I correct in thinking that you're saying that a classic should be judged SOLELY by its impact ?
because if an album goes completely unnoticed and sells 3,000 copies it cannot be a classic by your definition.
I definitely disagree, like I've said in the other thread. soul on ice is a classic to me no matter what anyone says.
now if we're talking diction, lets change the word 'classic' to 'one of the best albums ever' and reserve 'classic' to be only relevant to classical music.
because that's what you mean to say really, right ? this album is classic is basically you saying "this album is really, really great". such statements are opinions. therefore, there are no universal 'classics'.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptahblade07
_______ dont make music for there fans anymore they make it for themselves and demand for people to like them then act as if the people are all dumb and lost because we dont like they current music.
I'm just going to copy and paste what I said to the threadstarter in the other thread about this:
Quote:
Originally Posted by LukeCage888
lol...yeah man, I mean goddamn, why have independent thought and judgment about listening to music?
Why even listen to music at all? Why even have any discussion on ranking albums?
I mean, we already mathematically and indisputably know what a "classic" is and what's not by the fact that some albums are already arbitrarily chosen by the supreme authority of the masses, and any dissenting opinion is immaterial.
You sound fukking stupid and cynical, like you want to stifle free thought. What the fukk does it matter is something is "universally loved" (which is bullshyt begin with because no album is "universally loved") to the individual if that individual does not like the album? That's why we even have these discussions. We're sharing ideas and opinions. It works more smoothly without some dyckhead like you shoving the status quo opinion down everybody's throat, as if people don't already know AEOM is a very popular album.
People talk about what is classic to them, subjectively. We are discussing music, which is art, and thus is aesthetically fulfilling to people to people on some emotional/intellectual level. People can universally agree that 2 + 2 = 4 unless they suffer from a mental disorder. People cannot universally agree that All Eyez On Me is a great album. I saw a guy call the Beatnuts three albums classics. I don't find them to be, but if that's how dude sees it, that's valid enough...for him.
If we're grading albums on the 0-5 scale, 5 being a classic, popularized by The Source and still used as the standard measure of an album by most people, AEOM is about a 3.0 to me. T.I.M.E. by LONS is a 5 to me. So I should just say AEOM is a classic and T.I.M.E. isn't even though I love T.I.M.E. and I think AEOM is garbage just because the because Soundscan and Rolling Stone said so? Get the fukk out of here.
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Lots of people do throw "classic" around like it's goin' out of style. I've damn near seen just about any album that's old and good called a classic, even when some of 'em weren't even all that hot when they were out, nor did they have any kind of lasting effect. I think a lot of people look back at certain things and remember them being MUCH better than they were, or they use the old "it's better than what's out now" excuse (like that's some kind of incredible accomplishment).
I agree w/ PJ on the fact that it's not always about whether ONE individual feels a certain way about an album, or if they think that one bad song disqualifies it from bein' a classic or any sh*t like that. It's really about the album overall. Just because 'Straight Outta Compton' has one wack song at the end (and I mean PAINFULLY wack) doesn't mean that anyone will ever be able to deny that album's importance to hip-hop. Just because there might be some Sadat X album or somethin' without one wack song, it'll never in a million years be the same as 'Straight Outta Compton' as it relates to classic status. It's not about the little silly sh*t, it's about the big picture and its relevance to hip-hop and music as a whole.
Lots of people do throw "classic" around like it's goin' out of style. I've damn near seen just about any album that's old and good called a classic, even when some of 'em weren't even all that hot when they were out, nor did they have any kind of lasting effect. I think a lot of people look back at certain things and remember them being MUCH better than they were, or they use the old "it's better than what's out now" excuse (like that's some kind of incredible accomplishment).
I agree w/ PJ on the fact that it's not always about whether ONE individual feels a certain way about an album, or if they think that one bad song disqualifies it from bein' a classic or any sh*t like that. It's really about the album overall. Just because 'Straight Outta Compton' has one wack song at the end (and I mean PAINFULLY wack) doesn't mean that anyone will ever be able to deny that album's importance to hip-hop. Just because there might be some Sadat X album or somethin' without one wack song, it'll never in a million years be the same as 'Straight Outta Compton' as it relates to classic status. It's not about the little silly sh*t, it's about the big picture and its relevance to hip-hop and music as a whole.
co-sign, n1ggas know whats up, classic just is, a couple biter hate mongering homos can't change albums deemed that based on their little weirdo hermit preferences
this is why i have "personal classics", albums that were great to me, but who i don't really expect to see on all time lists, perfect example is busta rhymes E.L.E...i LOVE that album, but i do not expect the general consensus to agree with me on that being a hands down classic, there is nothing about it, other than my preference that really gives it weight
i know some crab ass, old square butt white muthafucckas who HATED THE BEATLES, are they entitled? sure...not everybody is going to fucck wit the beatles like that, but just because they don't happen to fit your F@ggy fancy doesn't mean you can dismiss the impact their albums and music had on popular culture
impact isn't the end all be all of a classic, but to me, and a lot of people, it's most def a part of the criteria, and a big part
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you faqqits ain't tough, you just get drunk and become talk-ative"
i know some crab ass, old square butt white muthafucckas who HATED THE BEATLES, are they entitled? sure...not everybody is going to fucck wit the beatles like that, but just because they don't happen to fit your F@ggy fancy doesn't mean you can dismiss the impact their albums and music had on popular culture
half of the niccas ive ever spoken to about hip hop thought grodt was a classic, and the other half thought it was trash.
you can't deny its impact, but you also cant deny that not even the majority thought it a classic.
bottom line is, there are albums whose impact one CANNOT DENY, but those albums dont have to be really good.
nobody's denying the impact of please hammer dont hurt em or speakerboxxx but are these really good albums, top 15 albums ?
basically, when I say classic, I mean "in my opinion it's a very great album, one of the top 15 albums". it's a shortcut, but I feel I have every right in the world to call great albums classic.
and calling something good or bad is a strictly subjective thing, so it cant be anything else than your own opinion.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ptahblade07
_______ dont make music for there fans anymore they make it for themselves and demand for people to like them then act as if the people are all dumb and lost because we dont like they current music.
am I correct in thinking that you're saying that a classic should be judged SOLELY by its impact ?
because if an album goes completely unnoticed and sells 3,000 copies it cannot be a classic by your definition.
I definitely disagree, like I've said in the other thread. soul on ice is a classic to me no matter what anyone says.
now if we're talking diction, lets change the word 'classic' to 'one of the best albums ever' and reserve 'classic' to be only relevant to classical music.
because that's what you mean to say really, right ? this album is classic is basically you saying "this album is really, really great". such statements are opinions. therefore, there are no universal 'classics'.
No, movies, records, TV shows, pieces of art that inspire generations are "classics". A record that 3,000 people bought cannot be classic, unless the 3,000 people who bought it used the influence of that record to effect the world, or if only 3,000 copies of the record was pressed up and the 3,000 are the "Holy Grail" of music, because it is so sought after.
A record that sells 3,000 copies can be better, but it cannot be classic, unless it's influence is felt for generations. That's why the definition is "enduring, serving as the standard of excellence". If nobody heard the record it cannot be enduring or serve as the standard of excellence. If nobody ever seen the Mona Lisa, it wouldn't be classic. It has to inspire and set the standard for future references.
Quote:
Originally Posted by danja29
Lots of people do throw "classic" around like it's goin' out of style. I've damn near seen just about any album that's old and good called a classic, even when some of 'em weren't even all that hot when they were out, nor did they have any kind of lasting effect. I think a lot of people look back at certain things and remember them being MUCH better than they were, or they use the old "it's better than what's out now" excuse (like that's some kind of incredible accomplishment).
I agree w/ PJ on the fact that it's not always about whether ONE individual feels a certain way about an album, or if they think that one bad song disqualifies it from bein' a classic or any sh*t like that. It's really about the album overall. Just because 'Straight Outta Compton' has one wack song at the end (and I mean PAINFULLY wack) doesn't mean that anyone will ever be able to deny that album's importance to hip-hop. Just because there might be some Sadat X album or somethin' without one wack song, it'll never in a million years be the same as 'Straight Outta Compton' as it relates to classic status. It's not about the little silly sh*t, it's about the big picture and its relevance to hip-hop and music as a whole.
LMAO!!! I was just talking about that wackass song "Something 2 Dance 2". It is God-Awful. I can't even believe NWA made that sh*t.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunzoo aka LC
co-sign, n1ggas know whats up, classic just is, a couple biter hate mongering homos can't change albums deemed that based on their little weirdo hermit preferences
this is why i have "personal classics", albums that were great to me, but who i don't really expect to see on all time lists, perfect example is busta rhymes E.L.E...i LOVE that album, but i do not expect the general consensus to agree with me on that being a hands down classic, there is nothing about it, other than my preference that really gives it weight
i know some crab ass, old square butt white muthafucckas who HATED THE BEATLES, are they entitled? sure...not everybody is going to fucck wit the beatles like that, but just because they don't happen to fit your F@ggy fancy doesn't mean you can dismiss the impact their albums and music had on popular culture
impact isn't the end all be all of a classic, but to me, and a lot of people, it's most def a part of the criteria, and a big part
Exactly, when something defines a culture and has an impact that changes the world, then it is a classic. Doesn't mean you personally have to like it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by yseJ
half of the niccas ive ever spoken to about hip hop thought grodt was a classic, and the other half thought it was trash.
you can't deny its impact, but you also cant deny that not even the majority thought it a classic.
bottom line is, there are albums whose impact one CANNOT DENY, but those albums dont have to be really good.
nobody's denying the impact of please hammer dont hurt em or speakerboxxx but are these really good albums, top 15 albums ?
basically, when I say classic, I mean "in my opinion it's a very great album, one of the top 15 albums". it's a shortcut, but I feel I have every right in the world to call great albums classic.
and calling something good or bad is a strictly subjective thing, so it cant be anything else than your own opinion.
Yeah, but Hammer's record isn't a standard of excellence in Hip-Hop. Hammer was despised by Hip-Hop basically from day one. Nobody ever took him or his records seriously, that's why there weren't anymore dudes wearing genie pants and doing the Chinese Typewriter. You're mistaking "successful" for classic. It may be a dance music "classic", because the same type of people that embraced that, embraced C+C Music Factory and dance music like that, but it is not a "Hip-Hop" classic, because it is not accepted by the Hip-HOp community in general. It's never shown up on an All-Time greatest Hip-Hop records list. It didnt' set an artistic standard.
Speakerboxxx/The Love Below is a totally different thing than Hammer. It may not be the Hip-Hop community's favorite album, but it was Album of the Year in virtually every important magazine and the Grammy's and it would show up on any best of this decade's albums list. It was given great reviews everywhere and is a standard of how music will be judged in the future. It is a "pop music classic."
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Can We Just Agree That Y'all Dont Know What Classic Means?
are not classic, when generations of people consider them the standards of what Hip-Hop is and should be is idiotic. There are such things as classic artists, movies, and rap albums. You don't get to decide which ones are though. Time does.
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