Project Covo SOHH ProjectCOVO Forums

Welcome Back! If you have not already done so, you MUST get a new password in order to access your SOHH Forums account. Read More.

Go Back   ProjectCOVO.com Global Forum > Culture & Politics > The Spot
Register Blogs FAQ Members List Calendar Mark Forums Read

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 12-06-06, 11:40 AM
RaquinoTj's Avatar
RaquinoTj RaquinoTj is offline
We Still Here!
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Reppin': Weston, MA
Posts: 2,450
RaquinoTj is infamous around these parts RaquinoTj is infamous around these parts RaquinoTj is infamous around these parts RaquinoTj is infamous around these parts RaquinoTj is infamous around these parts RaquinoTj is infamous around these parts
Exclamation "Muhammad Ali unknowingly invented rap music" ESPN

I Took This From ESPN.Com Its on the Front Page GOOD READ!

The ESPN documentary "Ali Rap" (airing Saturday at 9 p.m. ET on ESPN) is built loosely on the premise that Muhammad Ali unknowingly invented rap music, simply by being himself in public. If true, this would mean that rap did not originate (as commonly believed) in the South Bronx during the '70s; it would mean rap was invented in Kentucky during the '60s.

This is hard to accept because there are very few memorable rap songs about competitive horse racing and/or Rex Chapman. But it's still an interesting (albeit specious) hypothesis, and it permeates the framework of "Ali Rap," even in the moments when the show itself seems bizarre.

Public Enemy front man Chuck D, the host of "Ali Rap," is a man who has always understood the relationship between rap and sports. Chuck claimed to have adopted his rapping style from Marv Albert (listen to the opening 15 seconds of "Rebel Without a Pause" if you need proof). Half of the documentary features an undefined collection of modern-day celebrities (James Earl Jones, Diane Sawyer, Al Sharpton, Adam Corolla, Ludacris, Bill Maher, etc.) reciting famous Ali quotations as spoken-word poetry. This almost never works; almost all of the stand-in participants sound ridiculous, particularly the ones who are Caucasian and named Charlie Gibson. However, the actual archive footage of Ali talking is amazingly watchable and mildly shocking, even if you've seen most of it before. Ali is arguably the greatest boxer of the 20th century, but he also might be one of the most charismatic conversationalists ever 1 (which — all things considered — is a far more rarified achievement).

While it's difficult2 to prove Ali invented rap music, it's almost indisputable that he spawned what is now referred to as "the modern athlete," a term that's generally used as coded, pejorative language. When someone complains about "the modern athlete," he or she is usually just saying, "This particular black athlete behaves like a rap star, even though I've never actually listened to rap music in my entire life." These perceived traits include overt self-promotion, indifference toward authority, and confidence that hemorrhages into arrogance. As such, the relationship among Ali, sport, and rap is latently omnipresent, and examples of that three-pronged relationship are everywhere: 50 Cent buys Mike Tyson's house, Master P tries out for the Toronto Raptors, Ron Artest releases "My World," dead-end kids in Houston drink cough syrup and wear McGrady jerseys, and Fort Minor's "Remember the Name" is used as bumper music for 90 percent of televised college football games that don't involve Notre Dame. You can see these connections without even looking for them. But the deeper (and more meaningful) correlation between hip-hop culture and sports is more opaque; it has less to do with what they tangibly offer and more to do with how they're similarly covered by the media.

Sports columnists and rock critics have a lot of qualities in common (more than most readers realize, I suspect). Chief among these similarities is a sense of arbitrary righteousness: Sportswriters and music writers are appalled anytime they get what they once pretended to want. In the '80s, tennis writers complained John McEnroe and Jimmy Connors were obnoxious and undignified; today, tennis writers3 inevitably insist men's tennis is boring and that we need a new Super Brat. Whenever musical acts become obsessed with import and authenticity (i.e., U2 during the "Rattle and Hum" era), pop critics find them egocentric and ridiculous; the moment those same musical acts embrace artifice and grandiosity (i.e., U2 on the 1997 "Popmart" tour), those same critics question their integrity. Whenever you deliver anything to a sports columnist or a rock critic, they will want its opposite. And this is especially true when the (mainly) white media covers the (mainly) black worlds of football, basketball and mainstream hip-hop."4 In both instances, journalists remain simultaneously fixated on two paradoxical positions:

(1.) Most athletes/artists are boring because all they do is repeat safe, meaningless clichés.
(2.) The few individuals within these idioms who do say provocative, controversial things are ill-informed media whores who should be more grateful that they are rich.

Within the context of his era, Ali was the most outspoken athlete ever. There is a clip in "Ali Rap" in which he's asked about his unwillingness to go to Vietnam, and he ultimately says, "I am ready to die." This was not a metaphor; he openly challenged the U.S. government to execute him. Over time, those kinds of inflammatory, unpopular statements made Ali an assailable figure. At this point, it's virtually impossible to find Ali detractors.

From a historical perspective, being political was the best move Ali ever made. Yet this is the one aspect of Ali's legacy that has not carried over to either sports or to hip-hop, at least not over the long haul. Because of the inherent dichotomy of how sports and music are reported — i.e., stars who say nothing are dull, but stars who say outlandish things are vilified — most athletes and artists try to fall somewhere in the middle. They adopt and reinvent the style of Ali, minus the substance. And this is conscious.

In his book "Hip: The History," journalist John Leland5 calls Ali a "trickster of hip" who used his narcissism as "an instrument of generational catharsis, not private need." What this means (I think) is that Ali was able to effectively construct a self-obsessed persona that fooled people into reconsidering a world outside of himself. This is what made him important. However, it would be hard to find a present-day example of this in either sports or rap. Terrell Owens is (perhaps) over-criticized for being precisely who the media wants him to be, but it's still impossible to suggest T.O. is using his narcissism as an instrument of anything; he's more apolitical than Jay Leno. America lost its collective mind when Kanye West suggested George Bush didn't care about black people, but that sentiment still seems pale to the actual rap music that was made during the '80s and '90s; in 1993, KRS-One compared police officers to plantation employees, and the video still got on MTV. Over time, rap music has become less incendiary. There is no longer any reward for being legitimately provocative. More often, there is a commercial penalty.

This — more than anything else — is the best reason for watching "Ali Rap." If you want to see Ali's influence on the modern world of sports and music, you will certainly see glimpses of that phenomenon. But what you'll mostly see (and hear) is something that only happened once (and probably won't happen again).

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/etick...y?page=alirap1
__________________
Celtics
Red Sox
Patriots
Bruins
Boston DirtDogs!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=077UtUWGQOA
^ExodusNirvana
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12-06-06, 11:43 AM
Twofive's Avatar
Twofive Twofive is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,584
Twofive is on a distinguished road
Default

ya okkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12-06-06, 11:45 AM
DiverseLikeBeats's Avatar
DiverseLikeBeats DiverseLikeBeats is offline
Topsy Turvy Dat Muh'fuka
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Reppin': Leanin' Like a Cholo
Posts: 2,946
DiverseLikeBeats is infamous around these parts DiverseLikeBeats is infamous around these parts
Default

lol he did always ryhme
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12-06-06, 11:49 AM
Spike Lee's Avatar
Spike Lee Spike Lee is offline
Psalms 82:6 "Ye are gods"
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 4,778
Spike Lee is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

what ALI did back in the day was spoken word rhyming/poetry...

I'm sure people were doing that way before he did..

so this thread holds no weight
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12-06-06, 11:51 AM
God_Tua's Avatar
God_Tua God_Tua is offline
Winter warz
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Reppin': ALLAHU AKBAR
Posts: 15,811
God_Tua is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

malcolm x was doing it...
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12-06-06, 11:52 AM
HeavBags201's Avatar
HeavBags201 HeavBags201 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Reppin': JERZ!! 201
Posts: 328
HeavBags201 is on a distinguished road
Default

On that note... I think I created taking a dump..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-06-06, 11:54 AM
RaquinoTj's Avatar
RaquinoTj RaquinoTj is offline
We Still Here!
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Reppin': Weston, MA
Posts: 2,450
RaquinoTj is infamous around these parts RaquinoTj is infamous around these parts RaquinoTj is infamous around these parts RaquinoTj is infamous around these parts RaquinoTj is infamous around these parts RaquinoTj is infamous around these parts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spike Lee
what ALI did back in the day was spoken word rhyming/poetry...
I'm sure people were doing that way before he did..
so this thread holds no weight

Well Your Reply holds no weight, IF they were doing it before him, he made it Popular. Thats what the whole article its about.
__________________
Celtics
Red Sox
Patriots
Bruins
Boston DirtDogs!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=077UtUWGQOA
^ExodusNirvana
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12-06-06, 11:56 AM
Precise V's Avatar
Precise V Precise V is offline
choppin that white girl
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Reppin': The Rock
Posts: 5,376
Precise V is on a distinguished road
Default

Ali used to spit that slick talk, and make it sound good.
__________________
"I know you don't love me n1ggas is good actors
when I blow don't wanna be stuck in the hood after..."

R.I.P. Stack Bundles
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-06-06, 11:59 AM
kid_wizard's Avatar
kid_wizard kid_wizard is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 1,904
kid_wizard is on a distinguished road
Default

yeah, rap started in tha 'ville muhfukkas...

I need to get my Ali avi back after Christmas...
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12-06-06, 12:04 PM
andrea450 andrea450 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Reppin': Ohio..CO..L-Town (let's go!)
Posts: 9,899
andrea450 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

....folks should realize that just because someone is the 1st person YOU see/hear doing something; that doesn't mean they are the 1st person to ever do it. There were plenty of other folks before Ali doing things....but no doubt he was probably one of the most visiable with it.
__________________
We all gotta go, but I'd hate to go fast...
Then again, I don't think it'd be fun to stick around and go last.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 12-06-06, 12:06 PM
God_Tua's Avatar
God_Tua God_Tua is offline
Winter warz
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Reppin': ALLAHU AKBAR
Posts: 15,811
God_Tua is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

ali got his style from a WRAAASTLER--GORGEOUS GEORGE

GET YOUR INFO CORRECT BISHES!!!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-06-06, 12:29 PM
Mister Discotheque's Avatar
Mister Discotheque Mister Discotheque is offline
U wry bt da rAawng thangs
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Reppin': Titties on my back/ $50 Jordains
Posts: 16,923
Blog Entries: 1
Mister Discotheque has love in these parts Mister Discotheque has love in these parts Mister Discotheque has love in these parts Mister Discotheque has love in these parts Mister Discotheque has love in these parts Mister Discotheque has love in these parts Mister Discotheque has love in these parts Mister Discotheque has love in these parts Mister Discotheque has love in these parts Mister Discotheque has love in these parts Mister Discotheque has love in these parts
Default

What about Dolemite?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by keon View Post
i hate bytches...but i luv pussi..thats my only problem
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-06-06, 12:31 PM
andrea450 andrea450 is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Reppin': Ohio..CO..L-Town (let's go!)
Posts: 9,899
andrea450 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mister Discotheque
What about Dolemite?

That's the 1st person I thought of.....not to mention all those old time southern blues guys; they were damn near rapping WAY back.
__________________
We all gotta go, but I'd hate to go fast...
Then again, I don't think it'd be fun to stick around and go last.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-06-06, 12:33 PM
God_Tua's Avatar
God_Tua God_Tua is offline
Winter warz
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Reppin': ALLAHU AKBAR
Posts: 15,811
God_Tua is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

U Retards..dolemite Came Out In 1971..
Ali Inspired Most Of These Jigga Boo Coon Characters..also Jim Kelly In Enter The Dragon!!
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-06-06, 12:42 PM
NYC Rebel NYC Rebel is offline
SOHH Stupid
 
Join Date: Jun 1999
Reppin': My ol' day care center on Chapelle's "Block Party"
Posts: 50,223
NYC Rebel is a jewel in the rough NYC Rebel is a jewel in the rough NYC Rebel is a jewel in the rough
Default

James Brown was talking that from jump.

Either way, ESPN should get out of the business of trying to define hip hop. Considering that the DJ was at the forefront before the MC back in the day, I say that they're off.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:09 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.5
Copyright ©2000 - 2010, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Forums Directory <--- Lotame Behavioral Tags --- > <--- Lotame Behavioral Tags --- >
[Output: 111.98 Kb. compressed to 103.19 Kb. by saving 8.80 Kb. (7.85%)]