Let's get this straight once and for all: BIGGIE IS NOWHERE NEAR THE GOAT

[esoteriK]

that is all.

[intilectual recipricol]

agreed...
2 albums and some guest spots aint enough folks...
no one cares that he brought the east back...

[esoteriK]

agreed...
2 albums and some guest spots aint enough folks...
no one cares that he brought the east back...
and that in itself is questionable because he ushered in the bling bling era with that f@g sean.

[The Nastiest]

agreed...
2 albums and some guest spots aint enough folks...
no one cares that he brought the east back...
c/s the first 2 lines, don't even think he did the third.

He helped, but he's not solely responsible. Not hardly

[Im_Shifty]

biggies style wasnt even his. to this day i dont know who the real christopher wallace is he was a skitzo

[esoteriK]

biggies style wasnt even his. to this day i dont know who the real christopher wallace is he was a skitzo
what do u mean by this? more details pls..

[mitchandness]

So where would y'all rank him?

[intilectual recipricol]

under all the greats
and above knarst
prolly between 15 & 20...

[MartinAsante]

top 15

http://forums.sohh.com/showthread.php?t=916743

behind all these guys

Kool G
Cube
Big L
Jay-Z
LL Cool J
Pac
Nas
Prodigy
Rakim
Ghostface
Eminem
Redman
Treach

[esoteriK]

top 15

http://forums.sohh.com/showthread.php?t=916743

behind all these guys

Kool G
Cube
Big L
Jay-Z
LL Cool J
Pac
Nas
Prodigy
Rakim
Ghostface
Eminem
Redman
Treach
lol @ biggie being behind prodigy. i can't c/s that sh1t at all. he aint behind no mufukkin treach either. LMAO @ treach being mentioned that high up. eminem is questionable too, media hype aka white acceptance is a big part of his success. his best album was before he was even famous.

[AZ I 'C' it]

...it's funny that most rappers, no matter how big their catalog, only have 2 or 3 true "classic" albums...throw out the 4 or 5 subpar albums he probably would have made by now (like they have) and he's still neck and neck with most. :laugh:

[Im_Shifty]

top 15
http://forums.sohh.com/showthread.php?t=916743
behind all these guys
Kool G
Cube
Big L
Jay-Z
LL Cool J
Pac
Nas
Prodigy
Rakim
Ghostface
Eminem
Redman
Treach

big L aint NOWHERE ABOVE BIGGIE! these ****in big L stans man, i havent even heard nobody speak this dudes name until his name started gettin big on the net around 2003

[esoteriK]

So where would y'all rank him?
i would rank him in top 25 at best and nowhere in the top 10.

[esoteriK]

big L aint NOWHERE ABOVE BIGGIE! these ****in big L stans man, i havent even heard nobody speak this dudes name until his name started gettin big on the net around 2003
yea i agree. i never heard of big l until 2000. lifestylez of the poor and dangerous was right on par with ready to die though i must admit.

[intilectual recipricol]

definately ABOVE big L...
SMH @ putting Big L above BIG...
use the same logic and the answer is clear...

[BIGDENNIS10UK]

yea i agree. i never heard of big l until 2000. lifestylez of the poor and dangerous was right on par with ready to die though i must admit.


ReallY???

I can't agree with that at all.

[esoteriK]

ReallY???

I can't agree with that at all.
well you need to go listen again. what did the album lack? i love it just as much as RTD.

[.PK5]

...it's funny that most
rappers, no matter how big their catalog, only have 2 or 3 true "classic" albums

[Raphael]

He's my favorite rapper ever... his stories, his delivery, his flow, his lyrics (no one has ever done it the way Biggie did it lyrically, it rhymed so smooth)

Uhh.. I'm flamin gats, aimin at, these ****in
maniacs, put my name in raps, what part the
game is that? Like they hustle backwards
I smoke Blackwoods and Dutchies, ya can't touch me
Try to rush me, slugs go, touchy-touchy
You're bleedin lovely, wit'chyo, spirit above me
or beneath me, your whole life you live sneaky
Now you rest eternally, sleepy, you burn when you creep me
Rest where the worms and the weak be
My nine flies, baptize, rap guys
With the Holy Ghost, I put holes in most
You hold your toast shaky, slippin tryin to break me
Look what you made me do, brains blew
My team in the marine-blue, six Coupe
Skied it out, weeded out, cleanin out -- the block
for distances, givin long kisses *****

Frank White the menacin, Chron Chron's the medicine
I got the lettuce and, you turn green like cucumber skin
Got the new, Hummer in the summer when I was a new comer
then, drugs and mac-10's
Hugs from fake friends, make ends they hate you
Be broke -- girls won't date you
That's why I relate to, choke yo' ass out til your face blue
Make you, open the safe too
No matter how you call it (how you call it)
this brolic, alcoholic .. {*Biggie's chorus fades in*}
like his weed green'd out, like his brick solid
Distribute to, kids who, take heart like Valentine
Drink Ballentine, all the time
Slugs hit your chest tap you spine, flatline
Heard through the grapevine, you got ****ed fo' times
Damn that three to nine, ****ed you up for real doe
Sling steal slow, as for remorse, we feel no

[Lustchild]

that is all.
agree wholeheartedly. Some cats be acting like Biggie never said anything wack or his flow was as such that nobody out flowed him. Twista outflows biggie easily, for example. In fact, Biggie sounded lazy as hell on most tracks to me. What he did have was charisma and a unique voice (plus the hype machine behind him). Storytelling wise, Nas is better, and there are others just as good. Not only was Biggie not the GOAT, but there is no aspect of emceeing that you can say that Biggie was the best at singlehandedly.

[BIGDENNIS10UK]

well you need to go listen again. what did the album lack? i love it just as much as RTD.


That i will, its on my ipod i haven't listened in years though


From what i remember. i thought the production was lacking


*Goes to get ipod*

[pureplayaII]

Goat? never
Top 5? nahhh
Top 10? maybe
Top 15-20? Definitelly

[danja29]

Y'all niqqas are wildin' in this thread.

Two Biggie albums and a gang of other songs and guest spots ain't enough for him, but one album and some freestyles is enough for Big L to be rated above him? :laugh: GTFOH- Big L worshippers are funny to me, cause a lot of y'all are just overcompensating for the fact that y'all weren't payin' him any mind when he was alive.

Quality over quantity, niqqas. Y'all get on here and talk all that Kane sh*t, and how many great albums did he have? He's one of my all-time favorites, and all his strongest music was made between '87 and '89... the other sh*t after that ranges from good to garbage. Treach didn't have ONE album on par w/ Ready To Die or Life After Death. Prodigy was very good at one point in time, but if you were to match him and BIG up, he'd lose in a LOT of categories, especially versatility.

Some of y'all are throwin' names out whose best sh*t doesn't match Big's best sh*t if you had to compare 'em, so how are they better?

[coogi mane]

Anbody can you name 5 rappers who are actually better than Big. Come the fu*k on now people be serious. If you think he is not one of the greatest you are crazy. Every rapper out now was infuened by him from down south to east coast to the west. Big was on another level an before his time. Personally I dont think there is clear cut number one but about 5 all time greats with different strengths and weakness. But to say he is not top five is just crazy.

[esoteriK]

Y'all niqqas are wildin' in this thread.

Two Biggie albums and a gang of other songs and guest spots ain't enough for him, but one album and some freestyles is enough for Big L to be rated above him? :laugh: GTFOH- Big L worshippers are funny to me, cause a lot of y'all are just overcompensating for the fact that y'all weren't payin' him any mind when he was alive.

Quality over quantity, niqqas. Y'all get on here and talk all that Kane sh*t, and how many great albums did he have? He's one of my all-time favorites, and all his strongest music was made between '87 and '89... the other sh*t after that ranges from good to garbage. Treach didn't have ONE album on par w/ Ready To Die or Life After Death. Prodigy was very good at one point in time, but if you were to match him and BIG up, he'd lose in a LOT of categories, especially versatility.

Some of y'all are throwin' names out whose best sh*t doesn't match Big's best sh*t if you had to compare 'em, so how are they better?
i made this post already.

[esoteriK]

Anbody can you name 5 rappers who are actually better than Big. Come the fu*k on now people be serious. If you think he is not one of the greatest you are crazy. Every rapper out now was infuened by him from down south to east coast to the west. Big was on another level an before his time. Personally I dont think there is clear cut number one but about 5 all time greats with different strengths and weakness. But to say he is not top five is just crazy.
you are clearly entitled to your opinion but you are wrong. i'm not gonna waste my time naming who i feel is better.

[coogi mane]

you are clearly entitled to your opinion but you are wrong. i'm not gonna waste my time naming who i feel is better.
I just want to know someone to name 5 better rappers. You dont have to waste your time but I doubt anyone else can name 5 better than Big.

[esoteriK]

I just want to know someone to name 5 better rappers. You dont have to waste your time but I doubt anyone else can name 5 better than Big.
lyrically all these guys are better:

NAS
RAKIM
CANIBUS
JOE BUDDEN
PAC

I CAN'T GET WITH BIGGIE HE MADE TOO MUCH MUSIC ABOUT KILLIN BROTHAS. NOTICE NONE OF THE CATS I MENTIONED REALLY SAY TOO MUCH ALONG THOSE LINES.

[coogi mane]

lyrically all these guys are better:
NAS
RAKIM
CANIBUS
JOE BUDDEN
PAC
I CAN'T GET WITH BIGGIE HE MADE TOO MUCH MUSIC ABOUT KILLIN BROTHAS. NOTICE NONE OF THE CATS I MENTIONED REALLY SAY TOO MUCH ALONG THOSE LINES.
Come on now Rakim, Pac, and even Nas have plenty of songs talkin about gangsta sh*t. And on what planet does Butten or Caniwho f*ck with Big. Canibus is a nobody with no body of work to stand on. And what Budden had one album that flopped (or did it even come out) and some mixtapes. Please get real because this is ridiculous.

[danja29]

Canibus? His biggest claim to fame (besides battling LL) is being the all-time great who never was, because the music he put out was garbage.

To me, he's like a niqqa who can jump in the air, flip, slam dunk, and break the backboard all got-damn day... but will never be better than Jordan on any day of his life because he still isn't that great of a player.

[overrated]

Say what you say GOAT or not. But their is no way in hell guys like Pac, Em, gay z, Prodigy and Big L rate higher than Big.

[MAD PSYCHE]

Pun Or Big

[Im_Shifty]

Canibus? His biggest claim to fame (besides battling LL) is being the all-time great who never was, because the music he put out was garbage.
To me, he's like a niqqa who can jump in the air, flip, slam dunk, and break the backboard all got-damn day... but will never be better than Jordan on any day of his life because he still isn't that great of a player.

and LL was Jordan, Bis was John Starks:cool:

[MAD PSYCHE]

and LL was Jordan, Bis was John Starks:cool:
I GET BIS DUCK ON HIM HARD BUT LL WON THE SERIS

[Lawrence]

he prolly woulda gon on to be a goat if not top 3
as it stands top 10, big a legend

[Bohemian RAPsody]

Anbody can you name 5 rappers who are actually better than Big. Come the fu*k on now people be serious. If you think he is not one of the greatest you are crazy. Every rapper out now was infuened by him from down south to east coast to the west. Big was on another level an before his time. Personally I dont think there is clear cut number one but about 5 all time greats with different strengths and weakness. But to say he is not top five is just crazy.

I can name 7:
Ice Cube
KRS-ONE
Rakim
Kool G Rap
Jay-Z
Nas
Big Punisher

[AZ I 'C' it]

I can name 7:
Ice Cube
KRS-ONE
Rakim
Kool G Rap
Jay-Z
Nas
Big Punisher
...I'll agree with the top 4...last three are debatable.

[LukeCage888]

Anbody can you name 5 rappers who are actually better than Big..

I can name about 40, but I'll give you 5.

Andre 3000
Nas
Jay-Z
Rakim
Kool G Rap

Come the fu*k on now people be serious.

I am.

If you think he is not one of the greatest you are crazy .

No I'm not.

Every rapper out now was infuened by him from down south to east coast to the west..

More like influenced by the image and style he and Puffy crafted.

Big was on another level an before his time.

No he wasn't. He wasn't even elite in his time.

Personally I dont think there is clear cut number one but about 5 all time greats with different strengths and weakness. But to say he is not top five is just crazy.

He's not top 40. He's on the same level as Beanie Sigel, Styles P, or Obie Trice.

[pop203]

he not even top 25. the people who were cool with him (badboy, jigga, nas, etc...) instilled it in us that he was one of the greatest ever because that was they man and he died, they was reppin him right. but in reality, that dude aint even close to GOAT status. he wasn't even THAT nice number 1, and number 2 he only has two real albums

[Lmac]

I don't think BIG is top 5 but he is top 10. Theoretically, I think anybody in the top 10 could be argued as the greatest, but I think BIG (even though he is #6 on my list) is the toughest to argue.

I could see some people putting him as low as top 15. Top 20 is pushing it, and anything lower than that is just plain crazy. I feel the same way about Big L.

Biggie is almost like the Bo Jackson of rap.

You can't say Bo is better than people like Barry Sanders(Nas), Jim Brown (Pac), Emmit Smith(Scarface) etc. He had amazing talent but people simply surpassed him, especially those who were already on his level before he died.

[MAD PSYCHE]

I don't think BIG is top 5 but he is top 10. Theoretically, I think anybody in the top 10 could be argued as the greatest, but I think BIG (even though he is #6 on my list) is the toughest to argue.
I could see some people putting him as low as top 15. Top 20 is pushing it, and anything lower than that is just plain crazy. I feel the same way about Big L.
Biggie is almost like the Bo Jackson of rap.
You can't say Bo is better than people like Barry Sanders(Nas), Jim Brown (Pac), Emmit Smith(Scarface) etc. He had amazing talent but people simply surpassed him, especially those who were already on his level before he died.
EMMIT HAS THE MOST YARDS(SALES) HE'S MORE LIKE A JAY Z

[Enzo Tha Great]

u might say LYRICALLY theyw ere better than Big

but not overall

charisma, presence, lyrics... storytelling abilities....

[esoteriK]

u might say LYRICALLY theyw ere better than Big

but not overall

charisma, presence, lyrics... storytelling abilities....
stroytelling was not some special talent big had. how many storytelling songs did he even have? not even more than 5.

[LukeCage888]

stroytelling was not some special talent big had. how many storytelling songs did he even have? not even more than 5.

His storytelling is overrated as hell anyway. Ghost, Slick Rick, Nas, Common, and Dre 3000 to name a few, are much better storytellers.

"He was a great storyteller" is just an excuse Biggie stans try to make to justify their gross overrating of him.

[pop203]

"i got a story to tell" is biggie's only excellent storytelling record.

[esoteriK]

"i got a story to tell" is biggie's only excellent storytelling record.
only song i can think of to tell u the truth. oh and everyday struggle.

[THE DICTATOR]

good story teller yet u got others who do it better like ghost slick rick and nas....big is top 15 and i still rank pun ahead of him....bis line by line>>>biggie..but biggie made way better songs...i hate when ppl say todays artist are influence by him...if they are influenced by him it's in a negative way...by the way heavy d was doing the fat player thing way before him

[esoteriK]

good story teller yet u got others who do it better like ghost slick rick and nas....big is top 15 and i still rank pun ahead of him....bis line by line>>>biggie..but biggie made way better songs...i hate when ppl say todays artist are influence by him...if they are influenced by him it's in a negative way...by the way heavy d was doing the fat player thing way before him
i don't understand this pun business either. why? cuz he was puerto rican?

[Yoda3542]

Biggie is easily top 5

when an artist dies in the middle of his prime, u gotta measure him by quality not quantity, especially when nobody really has made an album like LAD since

noone else has balanced hardcore and commercial like that, and no one has come close on a double CD

plenty of rappers have died, but Biggie's right there with Pac in every RIP shoutout from people who didn't even know him

inspired Jay-Z on almost every album that in turn inspired millions

wherever you put Jigga, you have to put Biggie above him

people will remember Biggie in 100 years, guaranteed

u can't say that about almost anyone else

[danja29]

Biggie is easily top 5

when an artist dies in the middle of his prime, u gotta measure him by quality not quantity, especially when nobody really has made an album like LAD since

noone else has balanced hardcore and commercial like that, and no one has come close on a double CD

plenty of rappers have died, but Biggie's right there with Pac in every RIP shoutout from people who didn't even know him

inspired Jay-Z on almost every album that in turn inspired millions

wherever you put Jigga, you have to put Biggie above him

people will remember Biggie in 100 years, guaranteed

u can't say that about almost anyone else

Basically.

Niqqas are actin' like muhfukkas didn't spend YEARS tryin' to copy the 'LAD' formula, and damn near all of 'em fell on their faces (and that includes Nas on his late-90s albums, Jay on 'In My Lifetime', Jadakiss on all his sh*t, Fat Joe on 'Don Cartegena', Cam on 'Confessions Of Fire', among others).

This ain't no stan talk, this is actual sh*t that happened. There's still not a lotta people who can achieve that balance- it pretty much boils down to Big, Pac, and Jay as far as havin' that sh*t that connects to different crowds like that. Some of the niqqas y'all namin' as 'better' couldn't even keep their own audience, let alone appeal to others.