Big H/Fitness Forum heads- Shoulder question (sore)

[Julius Hodge]

Maybe someone here can help me out with this. On Tuesday night I did my usual shoulder workout. After doing behind the neck presses, I noticed that there was some soreness in my left shoulder. I went through the rest of my workout, there wasn't too much pain or anything, but the next day I still felt sore in my shoulder, and I had a bit of numbness in my left arm. I went ahead and did triceps yesterday, without too much trouble, and even did an excercise on cables that is for rotator cuffs, I did the weight I normally do without any pain. Today, there isn't too much pain, just discomfort. I am going to take a week off since shoulder is so crucial to everything upper body wise. Your thoughts on what it could be?

[Retart]

Heart attack coming.

Sorry to be the one to tell you.

[andre patton]

I can probably tell you exactly what happened.

"To do the behind-the-neck pulldown as normally instructed, you must externally rotate your shoulders as much as possible. This is a very delicate position for your shoulders.

The supporting muscles of the shoulders (known as the rotator cuff) are not in a good position to stabilize the joint and injury to those supporting muscles can result, which can lead to further injury in the connective tissue of the joint.

On top of that, since most people do not have enough shoulder flexibility to get a straight line of pull behind the neck, they must bend their neck forward to even do the movement. This can result in neck strain on top of shoulder strain.

This information also applies to the behind-the-neck pull-up exercise. The mechanics of the movement are exactly the same, the only difference being you're pulling yourself up instead of pulling the weight down." -Nick Nilsson, Bodybuilding.com

Essentially what he is saying is that any behind the neck exercise puts an unnatural strain on your shoulder and makes your rotator cuff prone to injury. I would do them very cautiously. I only do them with light reps, and I stretch my rotator cuff before hand.

If I were seeing any problems with my rotator cuff I would immediately stop all behind the neck exercises. Its not worth it. Talk to anyone with a fukked up rotator cuff...the rehab sucks and your shoulder will never be the same.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6NrxHBUR-4

Thats a great exercise to stretch/strengthen your rotator cuff as well as improve flexibility. You dont have to use a towel, I use a long bow staff right before I do any lifts involving my shoulders.

[Julius Hodge]

okay so i just did that excercise and i have more flexibility in my left shoulder (sore one) than the right one. there wasnt any pain when doing it also. don't think it's rotator cuff but im def. taking a week off and cutting out behind the neck presses.

[Primus]

Weighted arm circles, Arnold dumb bell presses and inclined barbell shoulder presses are few I never had pain issues with. You might want to start a reduced wieght with weekly increases. As far as the pain, I would see a doctor if necessary. If not just work around it until the pain is gone.

[Big H]

There are too many things that can go wrong with Shoulders. I highly doubt its a Rotator-cuff issue because there would be actual PAIN and an inability to move the arm. Taking a week off is the smart thing to do though; you never want to force workouts. I don't do behind-the-neck work because honestly the reward does not outweigh the risk, there is no real advantage in doing them.

[MadGifted]

Maybe someone here can help me out with this. On Tuesday night I did my usual shoulder workout. After doing behind the neck presses, I noticed that there was some soreness in my left shoulder. I went through the rest of my workout, there wasn't too much pain or anything, but the next day I still felt sore in my shoulder, and I had a bit of numbness in my left arm. I went ahead and did triceps yesterday, without too much trouble, and even did an excercise on cables that is for rotator cuffs, I did the weight I normally do without any pain. Today, there isn't too much pain, just discomfort. I am going to take a week off since shoulder is so crucial to everything upper body wise. Your thoughts on what it could be?

Could be a rotator cuff...you still have the same range of motion that you normally have?

[MadGifted]

okay so i just did that excercise and i have more flexibility in my left shoulder (sore one) than the right one. there wasnt any pain when doing it also. don't think it's rotator cuff but im def. taking a week off and cutting out behind the neck presses.

Check it out anyway after a week if it's still sore. X ray or MRI...

A lot of times, you won't know with these injuries. Mine is messed up but I have no pain..just weakness in that shoulder.

So I'm just workin' out smart...I ain't a powerlifter or bodybuilder so no need to impress anyone. So I avoid barbell exercises and anything behind the neck...I'll have to get surgery, I'm guessing but even when I recover, I'll probably still avoid behind the neck sh*t...

[MadGifted]

okay so i just did that excercise and i have more flexibility in my left shoulder (sore one) than the right one. there wasnt any pain when doing it also. don't think it's rotator cuff but im def. taking a week off and cutting out behind the neck presses.

Check it out anyway after a week if it's still sore. X ray or MRI...

A lot of times, you won't know with these injuries. Mine is messed up but I have no pain..just weakness in that shoulder.

So I'm just workin' out smart...I ain't a powerlifter or bodybuilder so no need to impress anyone. So I avoid barbell exercises and anything behind the neck...I'll have to get surgery, I'm guessing but even when I recover, I'll probably still avoid behind the neck sh*t...

[MadGifted]

There are too many things that can go wrong with Shoulders. I highly doubt its a Rotator-cuff issue because there would be actual PAIN and an inability to move the arm. Taking a week off is the smart thing to do though; you never want to force workouts. I don't do behind-the-neck work because honestly the reward does not outweigh the risk, there is no real advantage in doing them.

Nah, B....you don't have to be in pain with rotator cuff injuries.

I've had quite a few peeps who had rotator injuries with absolutely zero pain who had no idea their ish was F'd up...then took a trip to the docs...bam...next thing you know...they out for 3-4 mths.

Hell, one of the trainers even had a little tear in his biceps (I think?) along with the rotator cuff tear and never knew it until the day of surgery when they found it.

[Big H]

Nah, B....you don't have to be in pain with rotator cuff injuries.
I've had quite a few peeps who had rotator injuries with absolutely zero pain who had no idea their ish was F'd up...then took a trip to the docs...bam...next thing you know...they out for 3-4 mths.
Hell, one of the trainers even had a little tear in his biceps (I think?) along with the rotator cuff tear and never knew it until the day of surgery when they found it.

Well I'm speaking from personal experience. I've strained my RC about three times and each time the pain was almost unbearable. What your talking about is progressive damage to the RC. With enough time, you won't feel pain but the damage is still mounting.

He is talking about a one time occurrence that caused discomfort in the shoulder, hence why I said it's not a RC issue. Had it been a serious injury to the RC, the pain would be evident.

[andre patton]

Well I'm speaking from personal experience. I've strained my RC about three times and each time the pain was almost unbearable. What your talking about is progressive damage to the RC. With enough time, you won't feel pain but the damage is still mounting.
He is talking about a one time occurrence that caused discomfort in the shoulder, hence why I said it's not a RC issue. Had it been a serious injury to the RC, the pain would be evident.

This is all semantics at this point...but rotator cuff injuries pertain to not only the rotator cuff muscle, but also the ligaments and tendons involved in working the muscle. So the pain you've experienced could've been a ligament, while someone elses to the actual muscle...or something like that.

I still personally believe most these injuries can easily be prevented with proper stretching of the area before hand. This is also coming from personal experience.

We'll see how he feels this time next week to know for sure whats up. If his pain is less, then we'll know it wasnt serious and it just needed stretching. If its worse, then he needs to see a doctor asap.

[storyteller]

I used to get shoulder pains when I benched heavy...never figured out why, but it got better eventually. If it really could be rotator's cuff though...don't **** around with it.

[andre patton]

I used to get shoulder pains when I benched heavy...never figured out why, but it got better eventually. If it really could be rotator's cuff though...don't **** around with it.

Actually this used to happen to me as well.

I made a couple of friends at my gym that are powerlifters (which is a good thing to try do to. just find the guys built like fridges lifting 400+ lbs on bench) and they explained to me the reason I started feeling pain in my shoulder is because I brought the bar up too high on my chest.

They explode off a lower part of their chest (at or below the nipple) which minimizes shoulder and uses more tricep. Its not really a problem if youre lifting lower weights, but I'd say once you hit 250+ you're gonna want to switch it up to avoid any type of injury.

[Julius Hodge]

Thanks for the help fellas.

Okay, so the pain is completely gone, There is no loss to my range of motion. I still am not going to lift at all this week, I'm at the end of a three month cycle anyways, so I need to let the joints rest. I'm definitely not going to do anymore behind the neck stuff anymore, I'll use dumbbells for rear delts.


What other excercises can I do for rear delts can I do where I won't run a risk of fukking a rotator cuff up?!?

[MadGifted]

Well I'm speaking from personal experience. I've strained my RC about three times and each time the pain was almost unbearable. What your talking about is progressive damage to the RC. With enough time, you won't feel pain but the damage is still mounting.
He is talking about a one time occurrence that caused discomfort in the shoulder, hence why I said it's not a RC issue. Had it been a serious injury to the RC, the pain would be evident.

You do know that your RC can require surgery w/o you knowin' it, right?

I mean, unless it's completely torn from the bone, I'm sure you're gonna still be able to use your arm and might not even feel any pain.

I know I don't feel any pain in my shoulder...never have...but I know it's fukked up.

Same with the cats I know who had RC surgery. No pain...but a few of them were older...and one just works heavy...and you know those barbell exercises and behind the neck sh*ts are killer on the RC.

[MadGifted]

This is all semantics at this point...but rotator cuff injuries pertain to not only the rotator cuff muscle, but also the ligaments and tendons involved in working the muscle. So the pain you've experienced could've been a ligament, while someone elses to the actual muscle...or something like that.
I still personally believe most these injuries can easily be prevented with proper stretching of the area before hand. This is also coming from personal experience.
We'll see how he feels this time next week to know for sure whats up. If his pain is less, then we'll know it wasnt serious and it just needed stretching. If its worse, then he needs to see a doctor asap.

I think mine was fukked up sparring.

Because I hadn't lifted for a week or so before my shoulder just started givin' out.

No pain...but it felt like...say you're puttin' 2 plates on one side...and w/o knowin' it...someone puts 4 plates on the other side of the barbell.

Once you get that ish of the rack...it's instantly gonna lean toward the heavier side...and you gonna be struggling to get that ish up.

That's how it is with my shoulder. No pain, though...and it just happened out of the blue..and the only thing I had done consistently for last week was grappling. And I did get caught in the kimura and a shoulder lock once or twice...so I'm like...hmmm....

[Big H]

You do know that your RC can require surgery w/o you knowin' it, right?
I mean, unless it's completely torn from the bone, I'm sure you're gonna still be able to use your arm and might not even feel any pain.
I know I don't feel any pain in my shoulder...never have...but I know it's fukked up.
Same with the cats I know who had RC surgery. No pain...but a few of them were older...and one just works heavy...and you know those barbell exercises and behind the neck sh*ts are killer on the RC.

For those unfortunate enough to damage it completely, yes I know it requires surgery... I'm no idiot in these matters. I had MRI's done each time I strained my RC and I did not need surgery to correct it; only time and rest. In my case I KNOW my RC was strained because of the limited rotation I had and the sharpness of the pain. Getting the MRI's was simply a precautionary measure.

I would recommend anyone, if possible, to get an MRI done when dealing with shoulder injuries but frankly some don't have insurance or can't afford it. I know from my own pocket that mine were $2500 a piece.

Once again, what your describing is the subliminal damage that happens over time and strikes without knowing. Most RC injuries that need surgery happen without knowing and pain, your correct on this, but once again for HIS situation I highly doubt its serious RC damage.

[MadGifted]

For those unfortunate enough to damage it completely, yes I know it requires surgery... I'm no idiot in these matters. I had MRI's done each time I strained my RC and I did not need surgery to correct it; only time and rest. In my case I KNOW my RC was strained because of the limited rotation I had and the sharpness of the pain. Getting the MRI's was simply a precautionary measure.
I would recommend anyone, if possible, to get an MRI done when dealing with shoulder injuries but frankly some don't have insurance or can't afford it. I know from my own pocket that mine were $2500 a piece.
Once again, what your describing is the subliminal damage that happens over time and strikes without knowing. Most RC injuries that need surgery happen without knowing and pain, your correct on this, but once again for HIS situation I highly doubt its serious RC damage.

Damn, $2500? What's good with your insurance? Did you try X-rays? I know it's not as reliable but, you could save some dough.

[The Usual Suspect]

i laugh at you lames who do shoulder presses behind yo neck, bunch of dum *****z

[MadGifted]

i laugh at you lames who do shoulder presses behind yo neck, bunch of dum *****z

I never saw the point of that exercise myself.

No practical purpose. At least with bench pressing, you can build some good explosion if you want to push someone off you on the mat.

Or even just push someone period.

[Julius Hodge]

i laugh at you lames who do shoulder presses behind yo neck, bunch of dum *****z


I laugh at b1tches from Detroit.



Shoulder is fine today. No pain, no stiffness, or numbness. Looks like I got lucky this time. I am giving up behind the neck presses in the future. Gotta protect those rotator cuffs.

What was funny is that I was doing presses slightly higher on my chest that usual (The day before for chest) which may have also put some strain on it.

Again, I ask the question: What are some other excercises that I can do for rear delts?

[Big H]

I laugh at b1tches from Detroit.
Shoulder is fine today. No pain, no stiffness, or numbness. Looks like I got lucky this time. I am giving up behind the neck presses in the future. Gotta protect those rotator cuffs.
What was funny is that I was doing presses slightly higher on my chest that usual (The day before for chest) which may have also put some strain on it.
Again, I ask the question: What are some other excercises that I can do for rear delts?

Bent over lateral raises are pretty good, you can do a variation standing up with cables too, also sitting down on a bench. Rear delts get worked when you do regular presses/Arnolds so you don't have to isolate them THAT much. Aside from that the only real isolation work you can do is bent over laterals.

[Big H]

Damn, $2500? What's good with your insurance? Did you try X-rays? I know it's not as reliable but, you could save some dough.

There are too many variables that come into play with the RC. I didn't want to take a chance and settle for X-rays and not know completely what was up with my shoulder. I didn't have insurance at the time so I had to pay out of pocket. The first two I paid with money I was saving for my whip and the last one I paid with some of the trust fund money my grandfather setup for me.

[Julius Hodge]

Getting back in the gym today. I'm doing Chest on Monday, Back/Biceps on Tuesday, Off Wednesday, Triceps Thursday, Shoulders Friday, and Legs and Abs on Saturday. I'm ready to get back at it though!