Influence? Yes. BUT you are a fukn CLOWN if u tell ME Rakim is in top....

[longmeat]

No, the only problem is all you'll get out of Rakim is lyrics. All he'll make a song about is what his rhymes will do. He'll never make a story rap, socio-political song, or anything that anyone can relate to on a non-lyrics level. He's typecast.
He's great, but because of this he doesn't seem well-rounded as an MC...

All rappers do that. Damn near every song hov does is about how much doe he got or how much of a hustler he is. Is jay not well rounded? Most Big songs was either party music or typical gangsta ima kill you ima druglord BS, but dudes got no problem saying he's goat.

You can't say Rakim is one dimensional and not place other rappers under that same umbrella. You gotta be consistent across the board.

[Taadow]

All rappers do that. Damn near every song hov does is about how much doe he got or how much of a hustler he is. Is jay not well rounded? Most Big songs was either party music or typical gangsta ima kill you ima druglord BS, but dudes got no problem saying he's goat.

You can't say Rakim is one dimensional and not place other rappers under that same umbrella. You gotta be consistent across the board.

1. There's a big difference between "Damn near" or "most" and "all". ALL of Rakims' songs are like that. Jay has songs like "Song Cry", "You Must Love Me", etc. That don't fall under that category. Big has songs like "Suicidal Thoughts", "Juicy", etc. as well.

2. I'm not speaking for other dudes, i'm speaking for me.

[SoulController]

ALL of Rakims' songs are like that. .


nah

Mahogony
Remember That
Stay A While
Show Me Love
New York To Cali
Welcome To The Hood
Waiting For The World to End

[Bosstradamus]

whoever thinks Rakim aint top 5....doesnt know a damn thing about hip hop....even in the 80's Rakim overall was better than 97% of the rappers ever

Rakim > Biggie,Pac,Lil Wayne,Jay Z, Nas, everyone basically minus like a select few (G Rap)

[Taadow]

nah
Mahogony
Remember That
Stay A While
Show Me Love
New York To Cali
Welcome To The Hood
Waiting For The World to End

Dig: Even on those, they don't have extra fire in his voice or nothing. They are are all super-lyrical songs, so much so that the feeling of the subject matter seems less important. And that's 8 out of how many songs? Save for "Mohogany", if you ask the average Ra fan what their top 5 Ra songs are no one would say any of these. You see what i'm saying?

[Mister K]

nah
Mahogony
Remember That
Stay A While
Show Me Love
New York To Cali
Welcome To The Hood
Waiting For The World to End

Add these tracks below to that list.....:

Paid In Full
I Know You Got Soul
In The Ghetto
What's On Your Mind
Teach the Children
Casualties of War
What's Going On?
Mystery (Who Is God)
Up Lift
Waiting For the World to End

[SoulController]

i guess so,its true most of his catelogue is battle rap/super lyrical style but i thought he proved on 18th Letter that he can be versatile too. im interested to see what kind of material he comes with on his next joint, whenever thats supposed to come

[ZigZ]

No, the only problem is all you'll get out of Rakim is lyrics. All he'll make a song about is what his rhymes will do. He'll never make a story rap, socio-political song, or anything that anyone can relate to on a non-lyrics level. He's typecast.
He's great, but because of this he doesn't seem well-rounded as an MC...
yur a clown listen casualties of war, teach the children, uplift,waiting for the world to end,whats goin on, heck even Juice theres a lot of songs, u probably never even listened to ra. that much stupid

stop bitin westcoast ***

[longmeat]

Dig: Even on those, they don't have extra fire in his voice or nothing. They are are all super-lyrical songs, so much so that the feeling of the subject matter seems less important. And that's 8 out of how many songs? Save for "Mohogany", if you ask the average Ra fan what their top 5 Ra songs are no one would say any of these. You see what i'm saying?

Now you backtracking. Earlier you said all rakims songs is about how he rhymes and he's not well rounded. then when dude brings up a list of songs that shows that thats not all he does, you discredit it and say its not enough. Name all the Big Songs that wasn't about Partying or gangsta talk. Name all the hov songs that wasn't about his money or how much of a hustler he is. Name all the pac songs that wasn't on that shoot em up bang bang shyt? All rappers do that (thats actually been my biggest complaint about rap music for the longest time). So if you're going to hold rakim to this standard, then you have to hold all rappers who you say is better than Rakim to that same standard.

And I'm a big hov and big fan, I got most they lyrics damn near memorized and they all do the same thing you blaming rakim for doing. Hov got like 10 albums and you can only list two that not's about money or gangsta bs. Like I said earlier. Rakim's biggest "fault" is that he won't compromise art for money. It was supposedly the reason why he ain't put out an album with Dre.

Also you can't discredit rakim for not having "fire in his voice" there's very few rappers who showed any real emotion on the mic. Theres not many dudes like pac or dmx that when they make a track you can feel that shyt in your bones. Nas, Jay, big, etc are for the most part pretty non emotional on the mic. Granted they not like Banks, Fab, or Mase where theyre completely monotone, but I ain't never heard passion in Jay-Z's voice (outside of blueprint 2)

[Taadow]

Now you backtracking. Earlier you said all rakims songs is about how he rhymes and he's not well rounded. then when dude brings up a list of songs that shows that thats not all he does, you discredit it and say its not enough. Name all the Big Songs that wasn't about Partying or gangsta talk. Name all the hov songs that wasn't about his money or how much of a hustler he is. Name all the pac songs that wasn't on that shoot em up bang bang shyt? All rappers do that (thats actually been my biggest complaint about rap music for the longest time). So if you're going to hold rakim to this standard, then you have to hold all rappers who you say is better than Rakim to that same standard.

And I'm a big hov and big fan, I got most they lyrics damn near memorized and they all do the same thing you blaming rakim for doing. Hov got like 10 albums and you can only list two that not's about money or gangsta bs. Like I said earlier. Rakim's biggest "fault" is that he won't compromise art for money. It was supposedly the reason why he ain't put out an album with Dre.

I only listed a couple from both of the artists I named and put "etc". There are more. I could list all, but I don't want to be here all day. And they've done it with more conviction. Not to mention, they have alot more catalogue than Ra in which they've done so (save for B.I.G.). It's for that reason I won't call Ra the greatest of all time-his catalogue doesn't show that to be so in my opinion.

[Bone$]

whoever thinks Rakim aint top 5....doesnt know a damn thing about hip hop....even in the 80's Rakim overall was better than 97% of the rappers ever

Rakim > Biggie,Pac,Lil Wayne,Jay Z, Nas, everyone basically minus like a select few (G Rap)
:gag: ....

rakim stopped developing as an emcee, point blank period. his reign as one of hip hops top 5 skill_wise was shoooort as hell. nobody can argue what hes done to alter/change/help hova and nas career as a whole, but to say rakim is greater than nas is idiotic. nas FIFTEEN year reign as one of the goats, and catalog shyts all over rakim. Rakim mic-wise, is not fukn with the big four...in hardly any "mic" category...

[longmeat]

I only listed a couple from both of the artists I named and put "etc". There are more. I could list all, but I don't want to be here all day. And they've done it with more conviction. Not to mention, they have alot more catalogue than Ra in which they've done so (save for B.I.G.). It's for that reason I won't call Ra the greatest of all time-his catalogue doesn't show that to be so in my opinion.

You still haven't answered any of the points I made though. How can you say Rakim's not diverse when other top mc's do the exact same thing? They might not talk about the same topics, but they have a specific subject matter which they rehash over and over and over again throughout their careers.

Now I can agree with your reasoning for not saying he's goat because of the number of albums he put out. Just like I can't really argue with people saying big can't be goat because he only really put out two albums. But if your reason is because you don't feel that his songs isn't diverse enough you have to 1) prove that by listing the Rakim's songs that show his monotony and 2) list the songs from other top mc's that show their diversity

And that cant be done, because just like rakim, most rappers talk about the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over......................................again

[Taadow]

But if your reason is because you don't feel that his songs isn't diverse enough you have to 1) prove that by listing the Rakim's songs that show his monotony and 2) list the songs from other top mc's that show their diversity

Once again, i'm not gonna be in here all day listing songs to prove my point because:

1. In the case of the other rappers, there are too many. But that doesn't matter anyway, because...

2. ...I came in talkin' about how Ra's STYLE makes his songs not seem well rounded. When Soul Controller posted the songs, I reaffirmed this. HE got the point of what I was saying. You must've missed it.

[longmeat]

1)so basically for whatever reason you don't want to put up any proof. you aint even gotta name every rapper, just your personal goat so we can see whether he has the diversity that rakims supposedly lacks. Im assuming you should know his catalog pretty damn well. **** we can even break the shyt down mathmatically and do the precentages. But you can't just cop out on some shyt like "Im not gonna be here all day" when we been going back and forth since 2:30 discussin this same topic.

But w/o proof someone can say soulja boy is the illest out and noone can argue his point.

2) I dont see how soul controllers post differs from mines. He said Rakim has a certain style, but he does have diversity (18th letter) you're saying he has no diversity at all, not even a little. And going over the back and forth that you and me been doin, you haven't even used the word style much less referenced it.

[Taadow]

1)so basically for whatever reason you don't want to put up any proof. you aint even gotta name every rapper, just your personal goat so we can see whether he has the diversity that rakims supposedly lacks. Im assuming you should know his catalog pretty damn well. **** we can even break the shyt down mathmatically and do the precentages. But you can't just cop out on some shyt like "Im not gonna be here all day" when we been going back and forth since 2:30 discussin this same topic.

But w/o proof someone can say soulja boy is the illest out and noone can argue his point.

2) I dont see how soul controllers post differs from mines. He said Rakim has a certain style, but he does have diversity (18th letter) you're saying he has no diversity at all, not even a little. And going over the back and forth that you and me been doin, you haven't even used the word style much less referenced it.

1. I don't have a personal "GOAT", because it's music. I feel like listening to different things at different times. At times, I feel like listening to Rakim and nothing else will do. It's just that at times I feel that way about Too $hort as well, as I said in the other thread.

Either way, no matter what songs are brought out they won't be enough for you or anyone else, because this is my OPINION. No one will ever share everyones' opinion.

2. Here's how Soul Controllers' posts in here were different from yours: his first post was just songs that in his opinion disagree with my opinion. I told him what my opinion was in reference to those songs. He then saw the point I was making, and left it alone.

2b. When I said Ra didn't have subject matter, I didn't say "at all", did I? For that matter, a person doesn't have to say the word "style" for you to know they're talkin' about style, do they?

[Bone$]

why the fuk they move my thread to this dead azz beef forum...fuk outta here:thumbsdow

[Art Barr]

No doubt, but I think Bone$ argument is that the n!ggas that are usually in n!ggas Top 5 are better lyrically than Ra, and I gotta agree with that. Biggie? Yep. Nas? Yep. Jigga? Yea. There aren't alot of dudes today that are better but the ones that are usually placed in GOAT lists are better, in my opinion. Ain't sayin' Ra still ain't dope tho.


biggie, nas, jay aren't better than ra.

not at all, not in any way.

ra sales on and in a major recording label are equivalent to what those would have done or on the same scale as well.

eighteenth letter went platinum, and didn't use a commercial single to do it at all, in comparison. granted rakim had material on there that would have been seen as selling out. but,...ra is the one who gave the rnb/rap collab the little bit of cred that eliminated it from being a track that cemented you into sellout status.....now how well the artist performed once ra set the bar, and ra wasn't lumped into their sector as sellout is another discussion...that is important to this as well.

biggie in no time was as proficient in rhyming, song structure, or patterns, or even delivery, or convincability throughout his career.

nas doesn't have the same uumph, in his delivery that ra had, over his entire discography.

jay, never made an impact till he used others that were almost ra's equal as contemporaries.....to get better.


so no,..none of them are as good as ra. they made more accessible pop records to the masses. when in all respects, and aspects...ra created some of the original newschool way of thought record that crossed over. not records that were made to crossover. a record that crosses over, is more powerful, than a record exclusively made to crossover.


especially if we take into account, ra made and set the bar for the pop music that allowed these three to even get put into the conversation of greatness. we ain't started talkin about just the skill as an emcee, that ra is shoulder above and beyound, this group as well.

just in delivery alone, ra kills this group. we can go down the line, and this group would fail in comparison to rakim.

art barr

[Art Barr]

why the fuk they move my thread to this dead azz beef forum...fuk outta here:thumbsdow


oh,..you don't know

gimme a break homie you on some bullsh!T with this shock thread bullsh!t.

[Art Barr]

who gave you the keys to drive the "real hiphop debate" car?
you ain't even got a license kid


on the real,...this is the most relevent reply to this clown's thread and his whole point of bein on sohh.com.

dude is offbrand than a motherphucker.


art barr