Black Rockers...WHere/Who Are They????

[SugaBear24]

I've heard a lot of black people complain about Rock Music; calling It White Boy music and other ignorant comments like that...There are also a lot of people shoutin "Rock & Roll is Our Music; and White People Stole it from Us"...But these arguments are irrelevant, my question is, where the hell are the Black rockers??? I'm Black and I love Music, I would love to see a Real Black rock band (Drummer, Bass, Guitar, Keyboards, etc) that is good on the same level as any other band like Zeppelin, Floyd, Radiohead, Metallica, Nirvana, etc...Here is the list of ALL of the Black Rockers, to My Knowledge...add on...

Jimi Hendrix
Living Color
The Dears (Murry Lightburn; Lead Singer)
Bloc Party (Lead Singer)
TV On The Radio (2 Black Guys including Lead Singer)
Most of The Dave Matthews Band
I think theres a black Guy in Incubus
The Libertines Have A black Guy (never heard them before, but saw a picture)
The Roots (Which are more Jazz that Rock and more Hip Hop than anything, but I felt like including them anyway)

I know there's a lot more, But I don't feel like thinking about it right now...ADD ON..

[BlackAlbino]

Chuck berry
little richard
Sevendust
Lenny Kravitz
Bad Brains
The Evols

[Clem]

0DFX (Zero-Defex)
12 tribes
13 stitches
24-7 spyz
40*hz
90 day men
a borrowed life
absolution
against the wall
all girl summer fun band
amalgamation
A-MOMS (Algebra Mothers)
anasarca
angrey red (tx)
angry red planet
Animated (the)
assrash
asstroland
Atari teenage riot
audio dislexia
bad apples (the)
Bad Brains
Bad Kitchen
bad reaction
badseeds
Bank Robbers (the)
basement 5
Basshead
Batter Up
Battery
BEACH BUNNIES
beatnigs
beauty pill
Bedouin Thieves
beef eater
bell rays
Between Arms
black flag
BlackDeath
blackgaurd
bloc party
blood brothers
blood has been shed
Blood Sisters
blood sugar
blown apart bastards
body count (dc)
Body Snatchers
BRACE
brazil
Breath of Silence
Brigada Flores Magon
broadzilla
building Better Bombs
bunny five coast
burn
Bushmon
butchies
BUZZ & THE FLYERS
cadillac hitmen
Calloused
Candiria
carps (the)
casulties
Catylapsy
cement
charge
CHIEFS (the)
christiansan
Cipher
circle one
CLITBOYS
clutch
contollers
Crisis
cro mags
CULT HEROES
dag nasty
damination ad
dance (the)
danko jones
dayspring
De Nada
dead kennedy's
dears (the)
Death in Custody
deep above the surface
defiant ones
deviant behavior
d-fe
Dirtbombs
disposable heros of hipocracy
DISPOSALS (the)
Dissasociate (NY)
District 9
double o
Dove
dr. isreal
drawing dead
eden park
el toro
electric eye
ELECTRODES
embodiment
END RESULT
End-math
Enymous
enzymes
esg
eternals
Etsaiak
ex mortis
exit (the)
eye and I
Fahrenheit 451
FANG
fear of hate
final conflict
Fireparty
fishbone
fix (the)
Flesh Parade
Follow for now
for the sake of dying
Franklin
Freda Renté
free verse
****farts (the)
****ing **** biscuits
funk face
Geisha Girls
germs
ghettosongbird
good bye blu Monday
good clean fun
goodlife (the)
gravy train!!!!
haggs (the)
harley's war
HASKELS (the)
Hated (the)
Haterz (the)
haunted (the)
HEAT (the)
heragainn
hero's (the)
Hillside Stranglers
holy whores
home 33
honeychild
hoods (the)
HOT SPIT DANCERS (the)
house of suffering
I in result
icemen
IDENTITY CRISIS
IDOLS (the)
Idy
Impact Unit
in the black hearts of men
infedels
INFLUENCE (the)
Innercell
inside out
Interracial Love
Intrepid AAF
irradio
jai alia savant
JAMES GOSS & THE GEEKS
jeasus eater
Jesus Chrust (NY)
Jfa
jiant
JUVENILE JUSTICE
Kaos Klitoriano
kayo dot
keelhaul
Kill Sadie
kill switch engage
killaholics
kimura
kimya dawson
kittie
kudu
leiana
libertines (the)
Lipstick
Loom of maya
LOS OLIVIDADOS
Lost Cause
Love equals death
Lucy Brown
MAD SOCIETY
maggot
mars volta
Mary's danish
Mc Rad
mercenary
Minus (Driver)
moldy peaches
Mother Goddess
Mt. Tai
Mubla Bugs(the)
NASTY FACTS
nation of ulysess
NEON CHRIST
******s (the)
Nip Drivers
No Comment
no empathy
no redeming social value
Nuclear Device
only ten between us
orange 9mm
outhud
oxblood
oxbow
panic
Pay the price
peer pressure
pegans
peligro
PENETRATORS (the)
philmoore browne
Pillar
pisser
plain white t's
plasmatics
pour habit
Powerman 5000
pressure point
pretty girls make graves
Protest And Survive
PUBLIC DISTURBANCE
Public Image Ltd ( PiL)
Punishment (the)
Pure Hell
rage against the machine
Rampant Youth Distribution
Ratfinks (the)
REAGAN YOUTH
red c
red tape
remember vangoah
Ricky Fitts
rip rag
Rip Rig
roulle
Roullette
ruido
S.F.A
sans sobriety
scenes of struggle
scream
SCREAMING URGE
scum
secret agent 8
SEISMIC WAVES
set a blaze
Seven dust
Shake Appeal
Shawn Hewitt
SHEER SMEGMA (AKA TEDDY AND THE FRAT GIRLS
shift
shock
Showbread
Shredded Steele
signi a
simi
Sins Of The Flesh & Pollution Circus.
sistas in the pit
Skindred
skunk anasie
slackers (the)
SLIT AND THE STITCHES
slits
small change
smart went crazy
SNUKY TATE
soa
son of sam
song of seven
SORRY
sound Barrier
Special AKA
special forces
static disruptors
Stiffed
stratford 4
stryder
suffrajet
suicidal tendencies
SUN
surragate brains
suspescts
Swain
sweet belly freak down
Swiz
systemic infection
T.V. BABIES
Tackhead
Tamar-kali
teenbeaters
Templars (the)
Ten Grand / Vida Blue
Tent
thermals (the)
Thornley
thoughtstreams
Throats
Toasters
tourretts
tread
trenchmouth
Tribe 8
tunahelpers
tv on the radio
UGLY AMERICANS
Ultrasonicas
Underdog
united blood
untouchables
urban dance squad
URBAN TURBULENCE
Urban Waste
vandals against illiteracy
Veldt (the)
VOID
voidoids
Warzone
WESLEY WILLIS
weston
whipping boy
WHITE FLAG
WHY
within
worlds collide
wound
x patriot
x-ray spex
Yaphet Kotto
YDI
yellow card
younglao
Yuppicide
Zao
Zarkons (the)

[SugaBear24]

Damn!!! Yo Clem, where did this list come from?

[Clem]

Damn!!! Yo Clem, where did this list come from?
The Afropunk message boards.

http://www.afropunk.com

[eckohed]

Chuck berry
little richard


Word failing to mention that is pretty pathetic; them dudes are the pioneers.

That list Clem had didnt mention Chuck either.

Add Sly Stone too, although theyre sort of funk/rock/soul

Rock lost.

[Ayatollah Watts]

I'm coming y'all... just wait..

[Profasi]

Rock lost.
How did rock lose?

[SugaBear24]

Word failing to mention that is pretty pathetic; them dudes are the pioneers.

That list Clem had didnt mention Chuck either.

Add Sly Stone too, although theyre sort of funk/rock/soul

Rock lost.

Dog...I'm talkin about Rock BANDS!! Bands in the way that we identify them today (Guitars,Bass, Keyboards, Drums, Vocals, etc)...I wasnt takling about Black people that make/made music...no need to get offended...just because you heard or read somwhere that chuck Berry "invented" Rock & Roll doesnt mean you have to feel the need to bash it into everyones skull everytime the words "Black", "Rock" and "Music" are mentioned in the same sentence...WE ALL KNOW!!!!

Not to take anything away from any Pioneers of American Music, But music, rock specifically, has evolved dramaticlly since the 50's and the term Rock covers such a wide range of music that it doesnt even make sense to call it by a single name. the rock that Chuck Berry & Little Richard were playin, is no where near the same rock that a lot of people played after them played (better or worse) just like the rock that Metallica Plays is nowhere near the Rock that Radiohead plays.

[Bone Daddy]

Dog...I'm talkin about Rock BANDS!! Bands in the way that we identify them today (Guitars,Bass, Keyboards, Drums, Vocals, etc)...I wasnt takling about Black people that make/made music...no need to get offended...just because you heard or read somwhere that chuck Berry "invented" Rock & Roll doesnt mean you have to feel the need to bash it into everyones skull everytime the words "Black", "Rock" and "Music" are mentioned in the same sentence...WE ALL KNOW!!!!


Yeah we all know that black people invented rock music. Yada yada yada. What people don't want to admit is that Lenny Kravitz made it all but impossible for most people to take black rock music seriously.

[InspectahGadget]

i wrote a paper for an english midterm a few months ago on why black people have been discouraged from listening to or playing rock, but honestly is seems that there has been a little bit of a resurgence of black rockers lately

[Red X]

i listen to whatever makes my head move to the music. that just happens to be alternative rock

[Clem]

Word failing to mention that is pretty pathetic; them dudes are the pioneers.
That list Clem had didnt mention Chuck either.
Add Sly Stone too, although theyre sort of funk/rock/soul
Rock lost. Who doesn't know that about Chuck Berry? Dummy.

[SmarterLyrics]

0DFX (Zero-Defex)
12 tribes
13 stitches
24-7 spyz
40*hz
90 day men
a borrowed life
absolution
against the wall
all girl summer fun band
amalgamation
A-MOMS (Algebra Mothers)
anasarca
angrey red (tx)
angry red planet
Animated (the)
assrash
asstroland
Atari teenage riot
audio dislexia
bad apples (the)
Bad Brains
Bad Kitchen
bad reaction
badseeds
Bank Robbers (the)
basement 5
Basshead
Batter Up
Battery
BEACH BUNNIES
beatnigs
beauty pill
Bedouin Thieves
beef eater
bell rays
Between Arms
black flag
BlackDeath
blackgaurd
bloc party
blood brothers
blood has been shed
Blood Sisters
blood sugar
blown apart bastards
body count (dc)
Body Snatchers
BRACE
brazil
Breath of Silence
Brigada Flores Magon
broadzilla
building Better Bombs
bunny five coast
burn
Bushmon
butchies
BUZZ & THE FLYERS
cadillac hitmen
Calloused
Candiria
carps (the)
casulties
Catylapsy
cement
charge
CHIEFS (the)
christiansan
Cipher
circle one
CLITBOYS
clutch
contollers
Crisis
cro mags
CULT HEROES
dag nasty
damination ad
dance (the)
danko jones
dayspring
De Nada
dead kennedy's
dears (the)
Death in Custody
deep above the surface
defiant ones
deviant behavior
d-fe
Dirtbombs
disposable heros of hipocracy
DISPOSALS (the)
Dissasociate (NY)
District 9
double o
Dove
dr. isreal
drawing dead
eden park
el toro
electric eye
ELECTRODES
embodiment
END RESULT
End-math
Enymous
enzymes
esg
eternals
Etsaiak
ex mortis
exit (the)
eye and I
Fahrenheit 451
FANG
fear of hate
final conflict
Fireparty
fishbone
fix (the)
Flesh Parade
Follow for now
for the sake of dying
Franklin
Freda Renté
free verse
****farts (the)
****ing **** biscuits
funk face
Geisha Girls
germs
ghettosongbird
good bye blu Monday
good clean fun
goodlife (the)
gravy train!!!!
haggs (the)
harley's war
HASKELS (the)
Hated (the)
Haterz (the)
haunted (the)
HEAT (the)
heragainn
hero's (the)
Hillside Stranglers
holy whores
home 33
honeychild
hoods (the)
HOT SPIT DANCERS (the)
house of suffering
I in result
icemen
IDENTITY CRISIS
IDOLS (the)
Idy
Impact Unit
in the black hearts of men
infedels
INFLUENCE (the)
Innercell
inside out
Interracial Love
Intrepid AAF
irradio
jai alia savant
JAMES GOSS & THE GEEKS
jeasus eater
Jesus Chrust (NY)
Jfa
jiant
JUVENILE JUSTICE
Kaos Klitoriano
kayo dot
keelhaul
Kill Sadie
kill switch engage
killaholics
kimura
kimya dawson
kittie
kudu
leiana
libertines (the)
Lipstick
Loom of maya
LOS OLIVIDADOS
Lost Cause
Love equals death
Lucy Brown
MAD SOCIETY
maggot
mars volta
Mary's danish
Mc Rad
mercenary
Minus (Driver)
moldy peaches
Mother Goddess
Mt. Tai
Mubla Bugs(the)
NASTY FACTS
nation of ulysess
NEON CHRIST
******s (the)
Nip Drivers
No Comment
no empathy
no redeming social value
Nuclear Device
only ten between us
orange 9mm
outhud
oxblood
oxbow
panic
Pay the price
peer pressure
pegans
peligro
PENETRATORS (the)
philmoore browne
Pillar
pisser
plain white t's
plasmatics
pour habit
Powerman 5000
pressure point
pretty girls make graves
Protest And Survive
PUBLIC DISTURBANCE
Public Image Ltd ( PiL)
Punishment (the)
Pure Hell
rage against the machine
Rampant Youth Distribution
Ratfinks (the)
REAGAN YOUTH
red c
red tape
remember vangoah
Ricky Fitts
rip rag
Rip Rig
roulle
Roullette
ruido
S.F.A
sans sobriety
scenes of struggle
scream
SCREAMING URGE
scum
secret agent 8
SEISMIC WAVES
set a blaze
Seven dust
Shake Appeal
Shawn Hewitt
SHEER SMEGMA (AKA TEDDY AND THE FRAT GIRLS
shift
shock
Showbread
Shredded Steele
signi a
simi
Sins Of The Flesh & Pollution Circus.
sistas in the pit
Skindred
skunk anasie
slackers (the)
SLIT AND THE STITCHES
slits
small change
smart went crazy
SNUKY TATE
soa
son of sam
song of seven
SORRY
sound Barrier
Special AKA
special forces
static disruptors
Stiffed
stratford 4
stryder
suffrajet
suicidal tendencies
SUN
surragate brains
suspescts
Swain
sweet belly freak down
Swiz
systemic infection
T.V. BABIES
Tackhead
Tamar-kali
teenbeaters
Templars (the)
Ten Grand / Vida Blue
Tent
thermals (the)
Thornley
thoughtstreams
Throats
Toasters
tourretts
tread
trenchmouth
Tribe 8
tunahelpers
tv on the radio
UGLY AMERICANS
Ultrasonicas
Underdog
united blood
untouchables
urban dance squad
URBAN TURBULENCE
Urban Waste
vandals against illiteracy
Veldt (the)
VOID
voidoids
Warzone
WESLEY WILLIS
weston
whipping boy
WHITE FLAG
WHY
within
worlds collide
wound
x patriot
x-ray spex
Yaphet Kotto
YDI
yellow card
younglao
Yuppicide
Zao
Zarkons (the)
really? Zao?

i would've never known...

[Copper Scroll]

i wrote a paper for an english midterm a few months ago on why black people have been discouraged from listening to or playing rock, but honestly is seems that there has been a little bit of a resurgence of black rockers lately
What was your thesis?

[Copper Scroll]

I've heard a lot of black people complain about Rock Music; calling It White Boy music and other ignorant comments like that...There are also a lot of people shoutin "Rock & Roll is Our Music; and White People Stole it from Us"...But these arguments are irrelevant
It's irrelevant (as you say) but I'm going to answer it anyway: Rock, in general, is not rhythmically dynamic enough for most Black people. Add to that the fact that it overuses guitars. The guitar point is not as important. I think if rock had more going on rhythmically, more Black people would like it... but then it would cease to be rock.

[In My Dreams U Love]

It's irrelevant (as you say) but I'm going to answer it anyway: Rock, in general, is not rhythmically dynamic enough for most Black people. Add to that the fact that it overuses guitars. The guitar point is not as important. I think if rock had more going on rhythmically, more Black people would like it... but then it would cease to be rock.
Interesting thought. It could be true. And it explains why groups like fallout Boy, Panic!, Linkin Park, and Maroon 5 are much more popular in the black communities than other bands. They make those catchy songs with those rhythms that make u NOD your head instead of BANG it.

really? Zao?
i would've never known...
I think one dude only.

U can also mention Sepultura. PLUS, I don't see GOD FORBID (4/5 members are black) in this thread. Possibly the best band mentioned in this thread. Well sort of. hahah.

[InspectahGadget]

What was your thesis?

"lately the music industry's representation of African-Americans has had a large influence on how everyone in America perceives black masculinity. Not only have African-American males been forced to conform to commercial hip-hop's definition of the black man as a thug, criminal, and womanizer, but the musical creativity of the entire African-American race in America is being stifled."

it was written 3 years ago for a freshamn writing course.

[anti white movement]

"lately the music industry's representation of African-Americans has had a large influence on how everyone in America perceives black masculinity. Not only have African-American males been forced to conform to commercial hip-hop's definition of the black man as a thug, criminal, and womanizer, but the musical creativity of the entire African-American race in America is being stifled."
it was written 3 years ago for a freshamn writing course.

some of the realest prose i've seen in my life

[Paul Mooney]

It's irrelevant (as you say) but I'm going to answer it anyway: Rock, in general, is not rhythmically dynamic enough for most Black people. Add to that the fact that it overuses guitars. The guitar point is not as important. I think if rock had more going on rhythmically, more Black people would like it... but then it would cease to be rock.hmmm

thats odd, because what we know as rock'n'roll derived from the blues, and the blues was bascially instrumental Negro spirituals.

[Paul Mooney]

the reason why Blacks have been forced out of rock is simple: when you are playing instruments you have your own voice, our own form of creativity. Not to say turntables and samplers are not creative. Look at the dynamic between Jimi Hendrix and Juelz Santana, youll realize people will always respond differently to live music, because it organic

[Copper Scroll]

hmmm
thats odd, because what we know as rock'n'roll derived from the blues, and the blues was bascially instrumental Negro spirituals.
What does that have to do with anything?

(1) The blues and "Negro spirituals" are more rhythmically diverse than rock. Rock just took one type of blues and ran with it.

(2) I was talking about black people here and now. James Brown and others have raised the standard for rhythmic complexity and dynamism in popular black music. (Keep it on the one, right?) This standard is not observed in rock, but it is observed in hip hop, soul, funk, and dance musics that have come along since the late 60s.

[Copper Scroll]

the reason why Blacks have been forced out of rock is simple
First, explain why you think "Blacks have been forced out of rock".

[Ayatollah Watts]

First, explain why you think "Blacks have been forced out of rock".

1) black people don't like rock
2) white people in general won't go see a all black band unless they're poppy or stellar

[mansell]

It's irrelevant (as you say) but I'm going to answer it anyway: Rock, in general, is not rhythmically dynamic enough for most Black people. Add to that the fact that it overuses guitars. The guitar point is not as important. I think if rock had more going on rhythmically, more Black people would like it... but then it would cease to be rock.
i dont buy this. black people shy away from rock because they fear it's too "white" or not "black" enough, which is false because that implies that there's some sort of racial essence which doesnt exist..most blacks arent into rock because they are close-minded and scared to do something different..

[Copper Scroll]

i dont buy this. black people shy away from rock because they fear it's too "white" or not "black" enough, which is false because that implies that there's some sort of racial essence which doesnt exist..most blacks arent into rock because they are close-minded and scared to do something different..
But why do you put it on closed-mindedness? Have they told you that they were closed-minded?

I put it on rhythm, because that's what I hear when I ask other blacks why they don't like rock. (That and the guitar thing.) And that's why I'm not all that into rock.

I'm pretty open-minded. I like all types of music. I love Hendrix and Led Zeppelin and many other rock acts past and present--because the songs are good and the music is interesting. But I wouldn't be able to listen to rock all day long--or even for a few hours straight--not because I'm close-minded, but because not enough is happening rhythmically for me to stay interested.

I give black people more credit. I agree with the poster who said that more black people would listen to rock if it made them nod their head more. It's not something we lack--it's something the music lacks that most of us need.

[Copper Scroll]

1) black people don't like rock
2) white people in general won't go see a all black band unless they're poppy or stellar
#2 is sad and unfortunate. But #1 is the only reason #2 even matters. And #1 is not exactly a situation where anyone is being "forced".

[mansell]

But why do you put it on closed-mindedness? Have they told you that they were closed-minded?
I put it on rhythm, because that's what I hear when I ask other blacks why they don't like rock. (That and the guitar thing.) And that's why I'm not all that into rock.
I'm pretty open-minded. I like all types of music. I love Hendrix and Led Zeppelin and many other rock acts past and present--because the songs are good and the music is interesting. But I wouldn't be able to listen to rock all day long--or even for a few hours straight--not because I'm close-minded, but because not enough is happening rhythmically for me to stay interested.
I give black people more credit. I agree with the poster who said that more black people would listen to rock if it made them nod their head more. It's not something we lack--it's something the music lacks that most of us need.
there are tons of rock with rhythm in it. it's just not as prominent as it is in some other forms of music. there's no thing inside of black people that makes them want music with rhythm.

if white can like music without it blacks can do it too. i know i do and im black so saying blacks can't like music that's not heavy on drums is more of the fault of people themselves/ the individuals/society in which the grew up, but it's definitely not the music and not the black race. and that's solely off the fact that other races/people like it, hell some black people like it. the broad generalizations and stereotyping has to go..

[Copper Scroll]

there are tons of rock with rhythm in it. it's just not as prominent as it is in some other forms of music. there's no thing inside of black people that makes them want music with rhythm.
if white can like music without it blacks can do it too. i know i do and im black so saying blacks can't like music that's not heavy on drums is more of the fault of people themselves/ the individuals/society in which the grew up, but it's definitely not the music and not the black race. and that's solely off the fact that other races/people like it, hell some black people like it. the broad generalizations and stereotyping has to go..
Let me say that I didn't mean to generalize. The existence of this sub-forum and the posters in it would prove any generalization like that ridiculous. There's too many black people in here who like rock for that kind of generalization.

But, to be clear, I never said that black people can't like rock. I said that (in general) they don't (which is obvious) and I offered a reason why they don't. And that reason may or may not have to do with genetics. I don't know about that. I think it is, as you say, cultural, but I don't think it's as simple as closed-mindedness. I think it has a lot to do with the form of the music and our culture's receptivity to it.

Since the time of James Brown, our culture has had a preference for heavy syncopation and polyrhythms, which most rock (again, don't mean to over-generalize) doesn't have. But complex rhythms and the emphasis on rhythm are supplied in funk, jazz, and hip hop--all of which have fed "r&b" and kept it alive... so black people (in general) prefer those musical forms.

You say the rhythm in rock is not as prominent. I agree, but I'm saying that part of that because it's not as complex. It's not about how loud the drums are. It's about the groove.

[Bone Daddy]

It's irrelevant (as you say) but I'm going to answer it anyway: Rock, in general, is not rhythmically dynamic enough for most Black people. Add to that the fact that it overuses guitars.
Well, that's just flat out wrong. You'd be hard pressed to find more rythmic diversity Outside of rock. The Mars Volta, Tool, Slipknot, Sepultura, and even punk like Blood Brothers has more rythmic diversity in half a song than any hip-hop or R-n-b I've ever heard.

[Clem]

Well, that's just flat out wrong. You'd be hard pressed to find more rythmic diversity Outside of rock. The Mars Volta, Tool, Slipknot, Sepultura, and even punk like Blood Brothers has more rythmic diversity in half a song than any hip-hop or R-n-b I've ever heard.
Exactly. To think that blacks don't like rock because it lacks dynamic rhythm is is silly. Every hip-hop song on the radio is essentially the same thing. Blacks aren't born with a thirst for rhythm that prevents them from enjoying rock. It's something that is cultivated and engrained in them.

I would attribute the lack of interest in rock music among the black community to them not seeing themselves in the music. I'm not talking about content because I doubt the average black kid can identify moving enormous amounts of coke or sleeping with the baddest brazilian models.

Then there is the compactness/stifling nature/whatever you want to call it that notions of 'authentic blackness' have on people. There's a box and anything that isn't already in it or doesn't somehow fit doesn't stand a chance.

[mansell]

Let me say that I didn't mean to generalize. The existence of this sub-forum and the posters in it would prove any generalization like that ridiculous. There's too many black people in here who like rock for that kind of generalization.
But, to be clear, I never said that black people can't like rock. I said that (in general) they don't (which is obvious) and I offered a reason why they don't. And that reason may or may not have to do with genetics. I don't know about that. I think it is, as you say, cultural, but I don't think it's as simple as closed-mindedness. I think it has a lot to do with the form of the music and our culture's receptivity to it.
Since the time of James Brown, our culture has had a preference for heavy syncopation and polyrhythms, which most rock (again, don't mean to over-generalize) doesn't have. But complex rhythms and the emphasis on rhythm are supplied in funk, jazz, and hip hop--all of which have fed "r&b" and kept it alive... so black people (in general) prefer those musical forms.
You say the rhythm in rock is not as prominent. I agree, but I'm saying that part of that because it's not as complex. It's not about how loud the drums are. It's about the groove.


Exactly. To think that blacks don't like rock because it lacks dynamic rhythm is is silly. Every hip-hop song on the radio is essentially the same thing. Blacks aren't born with a thirst for rhythm that prevents them from enjoying rock. It's something that is cultivated and engrained in them.
I would attribute the lack of interest in rock music among the black community to them not seeing themselves in the music. I'm not talking about content because I doubt the average black kid can identify moving enormous amounts of coke or sleeping with the baddest brazilian models.
Then there is the compactness/stifling nature/whatever you want to call it that notions of 'authentic blackness' have on people. There's a box and anything that isn't already in it or doesn't somehow fit doesn't stand a chance.
i quoted this because it's exactly what i was getting at..

[Copper Scroll]

Well, that's just flat out wrong. You'd be hard pressed to find more rythmic diversity Outside of rock. The Mars Volta, Tool, Slipknot, Sepultura, and even punk like Blood Brothers has more rythmic diversity in half a song than any hip-hop or R-n-b I've ever heard.
We might be talking about different things, but the vast majority of rock I've heard is pretty much 1 2 3 4 or 1 2 3 4--sometimes fast, sometimes slow--sometimes hard, sometimes soft. (Play "Hip Hop Horay" or any Timbaland beat or James Brown beat and try to count like that.)

What I've heard of Mars Volta would definitely make them an exception. I'm not talking about all rock and all black people. I'm talking in general terms.

[Copper Scroll]

Exactly. To think that blacks don't like rock because it lacks dynamic rhythm is is silly. Every hip-hop song on the radio is essentially the same thing. Blacks aren't born with a thirst for rhythm that prevents them from enjoying rock. It's something that is cultivated and engrained in them.
I would attribute the lack of interest in rock music among the black community to them not seeing themselves in the music. I'm not talking about content because I doubt the average black kid can identify moving enormous amounts of coke or sleeping with the baddest brazilian models.
Then there is the compactness/stifling nature/whatever you want to call it that notions of 'authentic blackness' have on people. There's a box and anything that isn't already in it or doesn't somehow fit doesn't stand a chance.
Again, I never meant to imply anything about genetics or innate characteristics. And what you say about the notion of authentic blackness is valid--but I think tying the musics to races culturally might have originally happened because of genuine musical preferences.

I understand that people might not like it when someone points out a deficiency in the music they love. I don't mean to say that rock is bad. I think what rock lacks in rhythmic complexity is made up in its use of melody--which is often stifled in "black" music because of its emphasis on rhythm. I'm just saying that there are genuine differences between the musics and genuine reasons for different cultures' preferences.

[Quarters]

the broad generalizations and stereotyping has to go..

Like the broad generalization and stereotype that black people are close-minded and scared to do something different? I can't remember a time when the majority of black people were into rock music. Not because of it being too black or too white, but because black people just ain't into that shyt, period.

[reppin time]

What does that have to do with anything?
(1) The blues and "Negro spirituals" are more rhythmically diverse than rock. Rock just took one type of blues and ran with it.
(2) I was talking about black people here and now. James Brown and others have raised the standard for rhythmic complexity and dynamism in popular black music. (Keep it on the one, right?) This standard is not observed in rock, but it is observed in hip hop, soul, funk, and dance musics that have come along since the late 60s.
:laugh: ***** you need to stop watchin fresh prince

[Brooklyn329]

Like the broad generalization and stereotype that black people are close-minded and scared to do something different? I can't remember a time when the majority of black people were into rock music. Not because of it being too black or too white, but because black people just ain't into that shyt, period.

But even then you can't say that, because like someone said upthread, there are in fact black people that listen to rock. So "black people just ain't into that shyt, period" is just as flawed as "black people are closed-minded and scared to try new things".

[Quarters]

But even then you can't say that, because like someone said upthread, there are in fact black people that listen to rock. So "black people just ain't into that shyt, period" is just as flawed as "black people are closed-minded and scared to try new things".

How? Generally, it can be proven that black people aren't into it. Saying most black people aren't into rock music because they're black which means your automatically close-minded however, is wrong.

[Clem]

How? Generally, it can be proven that black people aren't into it. Saying most black people aren't into rock music because they're black which means your automatically close-minded however, is wrong.
Why do you think most black people aren't into rock?

[Brooklyn329]

How? Generally, it can be proven that black people aren't into it. Saying most black people aren't into rock music because they're black which means your automatically close-minded however, is wrong.

Me? Black. Like rock? Yes. See how you can't say that anymore?

[Quarters]

Why do you think most black people aren't into rock?

Black people like dancing to music that's rhythmically repetitive. We prefer the rhythm in music to be organized. Every popular dance I can think of, came from songs that maintained the same rhythm. Rock is usually all over the place in terms of rhythm expression. It doesn't help that black people aren't too fond of guitars.

Me? Black. Like rock? Yes. See how you can't say that anymore?

I'm black and like rock too but I'm not going to act like most black people are into it. Not even close.

[Altar K. Shun]

Exactly. To think that blacks don't like rock because it lacks dynamic rhythm is is silly. Every hip-hop song on the radio is essentially the same thing. Blacks aren't born with a thirst for rhythm that prevents them from enjoying rock. It's something that is cultivated and engrained in them.
I would attribute the lack of interest in rock music among the black community to them not seeing themselves in the music. I'm not talking about content because I doubt the average black kid can identify moving enormous amounts of coke or sleeping with the baddest brazilian models.
Then there is the compactness/stifling nature/whatever you want to call it that notions of 'authentic blackness' have on people. There's a box and anything that isn't already in it or doesn't somehow fit doesn't stand a chance.


These two reasons are the best reasons I've read on this topic (the idea that "Black " people don't like Rock) thus far. There is also a third reason however which ties into the other two.

First, "Black" people not really being into Rock is more cultural than "racial". If your "Black", grew up in an all white neighborhood and all your friends are white and into Rock than your going to be into Rock too (it's got nothing to do with "Black" people not liking guitars, which is not true). If your "Black", grew up in a major metropolitan city and all your friends are "Black" and into Hip Hop, then you will be into Hip Hop as well. One's choice of music, as well as just about anything else, has more to do with one's upbringing, experiences and particular outlook on the world than any construct such as race.

Second, although I hate to admit it, some of us, okay a lot of us, are very closed minded. I'm a cratediggers and to take a break (no pun intended) from Hip Hop at work (and also because I can't really listen to the type of Hip Hop I want to anyway at work) I listen to a lot of mix CDs with breaks on them. I'm also heavily into Jazz and I'm building a collection of early R&B from the 40's and 50's. It almost never fails, someone, usually "Black", will walk up to my desk and ask one of two questions. The first is "Don't you liten to Hip Hop/R&B'. The second, which I really hate, is 'What is that sh1t your listening to'. My response is always to play the break to whatever song is really popular at the moment which changes the whole attitude to the asker. I really don't understand how people can't realate to music just because it's older. To me, and in general, the older music is the foundation of the newer music and one can't exist without the other. There is no Beyonce without Diana Ross and there's no Diana Ross without Ruth Brown.

Third, there is another reason why "Blacks" are not really into Rock and that is radio programing, radio program directors and radio formatting. In the early seventies, radio began to change into programmed formats. Prior to this change, there was a time when good music, not homogenous commercial crap, ruled the airways and DJs actually would pull out albums and play songs that they actually liked, not what they were told to play. Ask any person who grew up in the sixties and seventies and they will tell you. It was not unusual back then to hear a song from Jimi Hendrix, followed by a song from War, Funkadelic, Sly Stone or even Miles Davis or Herbie Hancock on what would now be classified as an Urban Contemporary or Urban Adult Contemporary station. Radio programming is living up to it's name today by pogramming people into believeing that hearing the same twenty to thirty songs a day is normal. Formatting narrows the type of music played on a particular station so that many artist find themselves in grey "areas". Today, both radio formating and radio programming limit the types of music heard which in turn put's a limit on one's personal experience with music (if a person only listen to one type of format) and causes one to be more close minded in the types of music one listen's to.

[Copper Scroll]

First, "Black" people not really being into Rock is more cultural than "racial". If your "Black", grew up in an all white neighborhood and all your friends are white and into Rock than your going to be into Rock too (it's got nothing to do with "Black" people not liking guitars, which is not true).
Ever considered the possibility that most black people don't like a whole lot of guitars for cultural reasons? I don't think anyone here has said that it is in black people's blood to dislike rock.

Second, although I hate to admit it, some of us, okay a lot of us, are very closed minded. I'm a cratediggers and to take a break (no pun intended) from Hip Hop at work (and also because I can't really listen to the type of Hip Hop I want to anyway at work) I listen to a lot of mix CDs with breaks on them. I'm also heavily into Jazz and I'm building a collection of early R&B from the 40's and 50's. It almost never fails, someone, usually "Black", will walk up to my desk and ask one of two questions. The first is "Don't you liten to Hip Hop/R&B'. The second, which I really hate, is 'What is that sh1t your listening to'.
Ever considered the possibility that if you were white and played "black" music all the time, a white person might walk up to you and ask you "Don't you listen to rock" or "country"? "Black" music is "in" right now, so the probability of this happening is smaller than it used to be.... But look at the whole "disco sucks" movement all the way up through the 90s. White people are every bit as "closed-minded". That's why I don't think its a good enough explanation on this issue.

[Altar K. Shun]

Ever considered the possibility that most black people don't like a whole lot of guitars for cultural reasons? I don't think anyone here has said that it is in black people's blood to dislike rock.
Ever considered the possibility that if you were white and played "black" music all the time, a white person might walk up to you and ask you "Don't you listen to rock" or "country"? "Black" music is "in" right now, so the probability of this happening is smaller than it used to be.... But look at the whole "disco sucks" movement all the way up through the 90s. White people are every bit as "closed-minded". That's why I don't think its a good enough explanation on this issue.

To answer your first point, no no one has said it but it is being implied. The guitar thing is losing me too. Guitar is the primary instrument in Blues so how can we invent Blues and not like guitar. If your saying that we don't particularly care for distortion and feedback, I could understand but to say "Black" people don't like guitar I'm not getting. Even with the feedback thing there are exceptions, Ernie Isley and Prince, come to mind right away. Personally, I beleive that it's all in the packaging. People want to see themselves up on stage. I mean do you think you will ever see a "Black" Jesus in a white church.

On your second point, I never said that being close minded was exclusive to "Black" people. I work in a mixed environment and belive me I know. The truth is that I get this mostly from younger people and I believe this is due mostly to the radio and the fact that people, all people, are really getting programmed by it. Yes your scenario is possible but I personally have yet to see it (then again of course I'm not white). Lastly, in the last one hundred years when wasn't "Black" music in?

On your post about rhythm, I must say that i think this is true. I dont agree that that Rock doesn't have rhythm but to me it generally doesn't employ the kinds and type of rhythm that we like. It's crazy but take a song like "Fly Away" by Lenny Kravitz. Not only is the backbeat there but the rhythm guitar and melody are solidly "rhythmic" for lack of a better term. What I hear when I listen to that song is the same thing i hear when I listen to "Foxy Lady". It's really unexplainable and uncanny. Hendrixt kept that bottom in just about all his songs and that's what drew me to him in the first place.

[truestory]

First off

LoL @ black people not liking guitars.

try to find one black church that doesn't have at least on guitar or bass player in the choral section. Guitar is a backbone instrument of gospel and blues just like the drums Even R&B (tell me you don't here the acoustic in beyonce's song irreplaceable).

Second to say that hip hop is more rhythmically dynamic than rock is a mistake. Hip hop is more rhythmically repetitive than rock music but the rhythm in rock is way more dynamic than in hip hop. It shifts and moves thats why music based on samples of live instrumentation is more soulful and powerful than the generic beats most of hip hop is based on.

Finally I think the reason rock isn't listened to as widely in the black community; is because of the lack of live instrumentation in hip hop music and music as a whole. It's like someone else said before technology is great but live instrumentation is organic and can't be felt.

[Copper Scroll]

First off
LoL @ black people not liking guitars.
try to find one black church that doesn't have at least on guitar or bass player in the choral section. Guitar is a backbone instrument of gospel and blues just like the drums Even R&B (tell me you don't here the acoustic in beyonce's song irreplaceable).
The complaint wasn't that rock uses guitars. It was that rock overuses guitars--that rock is over-reliant on guitars.

Second to say that hip hop is more rhythmically dynamic than rock is a mistake. Hip hop is more rhythmically repetitive than rock music but the rhythm in rock is way more dynamic than in hip hop. It shifts and moves thats why music based on samples of live instrumentation is more soulful and powerful than the generic beats most of hip hop is based on.
Finally I think the reason rock isn't listened to as widely in the black community; is because of the lack of live instrumentation in hip hop music and music as a whole. It's like someone else said before technology is great but live instrumentation is organic and can't be felt.
Most rock I've heard is pretty much 1 2 3 4 and 1 2 3 4--and you cant do that count to most hip hop or funk and catch the beats in that music. There are notable exceptions, but these are exceptions. Frank Zappa and other more experimental acts messed with rhythm a lot. Rock bands that utilize Latin, funk, and reggae rhythms are more exceptions.

[slade]

to the topic, another rock band with a black lead singer is Comes With The Fall. Their singer toured with Alice in Chains this last year for their comeback tour.

www.comeswiththefall.com, www.myspace.com/comeswiththefall

[HurricaneJ213]

First off
LoL @ black people not liking guitars.
try to find one black church that doesn't have at least on guitar or bass player in the choral section. Guitar is a backbone instrument of gospel and blues just like the drums Even R&B (tell me you don't here the acoustic in beyonce's song irreplaceable).
Second to say that hip hop is more rhythmically dynamic than rock is a mistake. Hip hop is more rhythmically repetitive than rock music but the rhythm in rock is way more dynamic than in hip hop. It shifts and moves thats why music based on samples of live instrumentation is more soulful and powerful than the generic beats most of hip hop is based on.
Finally I think the reason rock isn't listened to as widely in the black community; is because of the lack of live instrumentation in hip hop music and music as a whole. It's like someone else said before technology is great but live instrumentation is organic and can't be felt.
c/s

to add to the list...

Slash is 1/2 black (velvet revolver)
i think Kirk Hammitt is part black (metallica)
Gym Class Heroes is as much rock as hip hop
Robert Randolph & the Family Band (psychadelic rock...all black group)

[Bone Daddy]

The complaint wasn't that rock uses guitars. It was that rock overuses guitars--that rock is over-reliant on guitars.
.
That's just stupid.
For one, every genre of music has a sound or instrument that defines it. Would you say blues overuses guitars? Or in the symphony there's just too many violins? The established (and frequently ignored) pattern for rock is: guitar, bass, drums, vocals. That's rock in just about any fashion. But there are countless exceptions to that rule, that truly negate the idea that rock is over reliant on guitar.

[Copper Scroll]

That's just stupid.
For one, every genre of music has a sound or instrument that defines it. Would you say blues overuses guitars? Or in the symphony there's just too many violins? The established (and frequently ignored) pattern for rock is: guitar, bass, drums, vocals. That's rock in just about any fashion. But there are countless exceptions to that rule, that truly negate the idea that rock is over reliant on guitar.
First, the complaint about the way rock uses guitars was not really my own complaint. I was addressing the issue why black people (in general) don't like rock (in general)--and I think guitars has a role in that.

Personally, there is a lot of rock that uses loud and distorted guitars that I actually like. To me, personally again, if you can't play like Hendrix or Page, then give me some other reason to listen to your music other than the fact that you're going off on guitar. But, to each his own... No one has been able to play tenor sax like Coltrane, but I still love listening to a nice Joe Henderson or Charles Lloyd record.

It's all about personal tastes, I guess--and I find that black people tend not to like a whole lot of wailing guitars. I think we (in general, again) can take those kind of guitars in moderation... like going on to listen to "The Bridge is Over" after "Rock Box". But I think rock as a genre is too over-laden with the sound of an often loud and distorted guitar for most black people's tastes these days.