View Full Version : Seriously, How the FUK did 94-95 Hova Get sOOOO much Better by 96?
Lets be real, jay was slightly above avg in 94-95, still hanging on to that fast rap shyt. this joint was hot http://youtube.com/watch?v=T9Cg4C766Ec
and even hova's freestyle from as late as 95 with big l http://youtube.com/watch?v=oUiv617LUAo showed the nygga was OOkay but certainly wasnt the monster that was birthed in the summer in 1996
This has to be the biggest progression in history, its like as if lebron had gone from high school to averaging 35 points and 10 assists his rookie year...
by 96 this nygga was on this shyt....http://youtube.com/watch?v=JC7MJ8l73SQ :ohmy:
wtf....how.....
Prodigits
04-13-08, 01:57 PM
Jay old style was just as good to me, i liked his fast rapping better.
Jay old style was just as good to me, i liked his fast rapping better.
really? you can really put that shyt up there with anything on rd?
TheVoice315
04-13-08, 02:03 PM
He's The God MC :king:
dumassispumanti
04-13-08, 02:06 PM
I like 94 Jay. I wish he'd incorporate that style into his music. Ain't nothing wrong with rappin' fast once and a while.
I like 94 Jay. I wish he'd incorporate that style into his music. Ain't nothing wrong with rappin' fast once and a while.
it aint about just slowing down the flow, but the multis, the hidden doubles etc.?
Lets be real, jay was slightly above avg in 94-95, still hanging on to that fast rap shyt. this joint was hot http://youtube.com/watch?v=T9Cg4C766Ec
this joint is just as good as anything on rd, real talk.
really? you can really put that shyt up there with anything on rd?in my lifetime and in my lifteime the remix are up there with the joints on rd.
Rakim23
04-13-08, 02:15 PM
*Allen Iverson's Voice* "PRACTICE"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=frsId3goYYE&feature=related
in my lifetime and in my lifteime the remix are up there with the joints on rd.
hell knaw not even close....
hell knaw not even close....the fuk i just say? what you do, just make this thread so you can tell all the ppl that disagree that theyre wrong?
aRizzo.
04-13-08, 03:14 PM
*Allen Iverson's Voice* "PRACTICE"
http://youtube.com/watch?v=frsId3goYYE&feature=related
i knew this was coming :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
Detroit Devil 3
04-13-08, 03:32 PM
Uh, DEAD PRESIDENTS came out in 95. He reserved all his best stuff for RD.
LiveFromNewYork718
04-13-08, 03:37 PM
Nothin changed except the delivery, he stopped rappin fast and started usin his regular voice. He was always clever and witty as fukk wit it, son was never 'average', he just aint have no real appeal to make him pop off like nas and them niiggas.
Gentility
04-13-08, 03:41 PM
Illmatic. that's how.
bugsmoran
04-13-08, 03:42 PM
by 1996 he had enough time to study Nas and Biggie's debut albums
Nothin changed except the delivery, he stopped rappin fast and started usin his regular voice. He was always clever and witty as fukk wit it, son was never 'average', he just aint have no real appeal to make him pop off like nas and them niiggas.
i can dig it
by 1996 he had enough time to study Nas and Biggie's debut albums
was waiting for this though ............
BIGDENNIS10UK
04-13-08, 03:46 PM
he had a terrible verse on big l's album, but that in my lifetime song is a great song.
bkgiggles86
04-13-08, 04:02 PM
Illmatic. that's how.
GTFOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Anyway Jay is a genius that is why :king:
by 1996 he had enough time to study Nas and Biggie's debut albums
imma jay fan, but this is so tru..jay put himself right in the middle
by 1996 he had enough time to study Nas and Biggie's debut albums
imma jay fan, but this is so tru..jay put himself right in the middlewell why dont either of you explain how rd sounds anything like rtd or illmatic?
GetThisMoney
04-13-08, 04:11 PM
steroids
bkgiggles86
04-13-08, 04:15 PM
well why dont either of you explain how rd sounds anything like rtd or illmatic?
lol that is what I want to know, because as soon as Jay dropped RD and his other albums after that, there has been countless of other rappers that has bitten jay style, sound, and swagger!!!!!!!!
enfluential
04-13-08, 04:16 PM
i like his older **** especially this
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pu4UG8uLHZ8
bkgiggles86
04-13-08, 04:18 PM
i like his older **** especially this
http://youtube.com/watch?v=pu4UG8uLHZ8
Crazy flow!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Perverted Justice
04-13-08, 07:35 PM
by 1996 he had enough time to study Nas and Biggie's debut albums
DING DING DING!!!!
We have a winner.
well why dont either of you explain how rd sounds anything like rtd or illmatic?
ARe you kidding?
"Big Poppa" and "One More Chance" served as the template for Jay's whole career. He sampled Nas' voice on the song for a reason. He was deeply affected by Nas and Big.
He realized he had to slow his flow down. Become more of a "Big Willie". Do more smooth R&B sh*t.
To be fair, Biggie saved the whole coast. They all rode on his back, except Wu. They did their own thing, but everybody else Nas, Jay, and the rest rode Biggie all the way to the bank.
No wonder they call him the goat. He saved the coast.
Sunzoo aka LC
04-13-08, 07:39 PM
he didn't get better, he just slowed his sh1t down a bit, the intricate flows and sh1t were still there, i actually think his fast rap was a bit more impressive
i was letting a few of my homies who ain't as up on rap sh1t as i am check out that "i can't get with that" video and they jaws was on the floor, the flows, the wit, the arrogance and precence...it was all there, he just didn't have that great of a delivery
DaTruth01
04-13-08, 07:40 PM
he heard the OB4CL bootleg
MrRahaman
04-13-08, 07:45 PM
Lets be real, jay was slightly above avg in 94-95, still hanging on to that fast rap shyt. this joint was hot http://youtube.com/watch?v=T9Cg4C766Ec
and even hova's freestyle from as late as 95 with big l http://youtube.com/watch?v=oUiv617LUAo showed the nygga was OOkay but certainly wasnt the monster that was birthed in the summer in 1996
This has to be the biggest progression in history, its like as if lebron had gone from high school to averaging 35 points and 10 assists his rookie year...
by 96 this nygga was on this shyt....http://youtube.com/watch?v=JC7MJ8l73SQ :ohmy:
wtf....how.....
i stopped reading after you said his freestyle with big L was "just ok"...
thats some of his best sh1t and one of the best freestyles ever
Sunzoo aka LC
04-13-08, 07:50 PM
by 1996 he had enough time to study Nas and Biggie's debut albums
how so?, the tripple time rhyme style was played out by 96 on the NY circut, i really don't think jay doing something as simple as slowing up his tempo had anything to do with nas, and especially not big
who was still tripple rhyming and still getting respect/hot at that time? it was something a lot of cats had moved on from, if you wasn't das efx, you wasn't getting love for tripple time rhymes on the east coast
jaz and jay had been doing the fast rap sh1t since the late 80's, by 96 had come around nobody was doing that sh1t anymore, every artist you could possibly name, from DMX, to jay, joe budden, eminem and others, STARTED OUT WITH A DIFFERENT STYLE than they blew with, they made certain tweaks and got where they got
i mean thats a lot of style switching, are we going to attribute that to big as well?
DING DING DING!!!!
We have a winner.
ARe you kidding?
"Big Poppa" and "One More Chance" served as the template for Jay's whole career. He sampled Nas' voice on the song for a reason. He was deeply affected by Nas and Big.
He realized he had to slow his flow down. Become more of a "Big Willie". Do more smooth R&B sh*t.
To be fair, Biggie saved the whole coast. They all rode on his back, except Wu. They did their own thing, but everybody else Nas, Jay, and the rest rode Biggie all the way to the bank.
No wonder they call him the goat. He saved the coast.
you do know that big poppa and one more chance was PR bullsh1t right? that was an image that puff concocted....and biggie had to get on the west coasts dicck to supposedly save NY, none of them n1ggas were coming with anything that was breaking molds, the foundation was already laid, i don't see how you can say jay got this template from big, when big/puff got their templates from other places as well
he did put a dent in west coast dominance (by jockin) but i think you giving him too much credit, nas and jay woulda been who they were regardless, big was the last of the great brooklynites out of that class to even grab a mic
RD don't sound sh1t like illmatic or RD, stylistically or verbally
danja29
04-13-08, 07:51 PM
He slowed the flow down and pretty much got off the "riggidy-rippin' the rhymes" type sh*t, that's all. You can hear the transition taking place- from "I Can't Get Wit Dat" to "In My Lifetime" to the "In My Lifetime" remix to the "Dead Presidents"... over that course of time, he got calmer, he got more fluent instead of just scatting all over the beat, sh*t like that. It's not like he went from horrible to incredible in two years, it's just that he polished his flow and moved with the times- cause by '96, nobody was doing that style anymore anyway.
Spiral Tap
04-13-08, 07:54 PM
steroids
Sosa. McGwire, Hov, Bonds.
Sons of an Era.
Sunzoo aka LC
04-13-08, 08:01 PM
matter of fact....jay i don't think his prime as an emcee (not as just an artist, i mean as a bar spitter, not a song maker) wast even RD, i honestly think he hit his prime around the time his albums started getting weak...that may sound weird but you might be able to feel me
he wasn't as good as constructing songs on albums like vol. 3 or dynasty, his hook game was wack, some of the beats ain't match up...he hadn't come full circle as an artist, but bar for bar, i think it was that time period where he was his most potent, too bad the music didn't match the ablity at the time
he may have declined technically, but he's a hell of a lot better overall artist now, i'd rather have a n1gga that can rap good, and make good/great songs than a n1gga that can rap great, who raps about nothing and can't write hooks (how many n1ggas can you name that fit this bill)
Sunzoo aka LC
04-13-08, 08:03 PM
He slowed the flow down and pretty much got off the "riggidy-rippin' the rhymes" type sh*t, that's all. You can hear the transition taking place- from "I Can't Get Wit Dat" to "In My Lifetime" to the "In My Lifetime" remix to the "Dead Presidents"... over that course of time, he got calmer, he got more fluent instead of just scatting all over the beat, sh*t like that. It's not like he went from horrible to incredible in two years, it's just that he polished his flow and moved with the times- cause by '96, nobody was doing that style anymore anyway.
*tips the hat*, as always you drop real sh1t
i stopped reading after you said his freestyle with big L was "just ok"...
thats some of his best sh1t and one of the best freestyles ever
:dry:
nygga please, this session is one of the reasons nykkas overrate big l so much, L's flow was much more fluent during this session making Jay look less in comparison...hovs flow was decent you could tell he wasnt run of the mill, but gave you NO signs that he would soon release one of the top 5 albums in the history of hip hop the following year.....
Hoody Paige
04-13-08, 08:12 PM
Camels have always adapted well to their surroundings.
Sunzoo aka LC
04-13-08, 08:15 PM
:dry:
nygga please, this session is one of the reasons nykkas overrate big l so much, L's flow was much more fluent during this session making Jay look less in comparison...hovs flow was decent you could tell he wasnt run of the mill, but gave you NO signs that he would soon release one of the top 5 albums in the history of hip hop the following year.....
i've always been under the impression that a good portion of jay's verses were actually freestyle, most of L's sh1t, especially concerning the word "freestyle" is really well written/thought out precise punchlines
i ain't listened to the track in years, but can't you clearly hear jay ad-libbing certain parts?
i've always been under the impression that a good portion of jay's verses were actually freestyle, most of L's sh1t, especially concerning the word "freestyle" is really well written/thought out precise punchlines
i ain't listened to the track in years, but can't you clearly hear jay ad-libbing certain parts?
I can kinda see what your saying...he kinda ad libbed l's name in their a lil bit
but there is no way in hell jay was "freestyling" a la supernatural or "off the head" type shyt...u can hear the ridges, valleys and peaks in the verse enough to tell me he knew where he was gonna place em, therefore it was at least "written" in his head...
And if he was truly freestyling, this is the reason we havent heard him do it again in the last 13 years cause he feel he got served by lamont
Sunzoo aka LC
04-13-08, 08:27 PM
I can kinda see what your saying...he kinda ad libbed l's name in their a lil bit
but there is no way in hell jay was "freestyling" a la supernatural or "off the head" type shyt...u can hear the ridges, valleys and peaks in the verse enough to tell me he knew where he was gonna place em, therefore it was at least "written" in his head...
And if he was truly freestyling, this is the reason we havent heard him do it again in the last 13 years cause he feel he got served by lamont
most cats that can freestyle tell you they piece together writtens with ad-libbing all the time for battles and ciphers, some of jays sh1t was clearly "written" in his head, but he was actually doing some riffing in between in between the legit bars, you don't really hear that from L, EVER, his sh1t is down pat and practiced, i have never heard anything that resembled a "freestyle" by that n1gga if i can remember correctly, i think this was around the time the term "freestyle" in NY, at least commercially went from being strictly off the dome riffs to being nonchalant lyrics over a beat with no specific purpose
most cats that can freestyle tell you they piece together writtens with ad-libbing all the time for battles and ciphers, some of jays sh1t was clearly "written" in his head, but he was actually doing some riffing in between in between the legit bars, you don't really hear that from L, EVER, his sh1t is down pat and practiced, i have never heard anything that resembled a "freestyle" by that n1gga if i can remember correctly, i think this was around the time the term "freestyle" in NY, at least commercially went from being strictly off the dome riffs to being nonchalant lyrics over a beat with no specific purpose
I would say the actual term "freestyle" got commercialized when the mixtape game popped off and a "redman keith murray" freestyle was actually a written joint much the way they are today. I have NEVER been mad at that, if off the top aint ur fortay i would rather hear a mean 16 than some random bs. The problem arises when u hear that same "free" 2 months later on nyggas songs or new albums...but thats another story...But just as in this case, a nygga with prewritten, distinguished bars, clearly outshines a nygga who aint da bast at off the top, and shoulda been more prepared....
Worm of Earth Jim
04-13-08, 08:44 PM
he had a terrible verse on big l's album, but that in my lifetime song is a great song.
I wouldn't call it terrible...
"Creep thru your block, fukk a glock I step thru your neighborhood armed with nothin but a rep"
Sunzoo aka LC
04-13-08, 08:47 PM
I would say the actual term "freestyle" got commercialized when the mixtape game popped off and a "redman keith murray" freestyle was actually a written joint much the way they are today. I have NEVER been mad at that, if off the top aint ur fortay i would rather hear a mean 16 than some random bs. The problem arises when u hear that same "free" 2 months later on nyggas songs or new albums...but thats another story...But just as in this case, a nygga with prewritten, distinguished bars, clearly outshines a nygga who aint da bast at off the top, and shoulda been more prepared....
i agree....in my head, i can freestyle, but i get so hung up in my mess ups i hate trying to really come with nothing but off the top sh1t in ciphers and what not, i'd much rather hear a n1gga's structured thoughts than his ramblings, some can do it some can't, but i think if one is going to be going against the other...maybe it should be a clarification of who's doing what you know?
i never been mad at the change of definition either, but some cats twist that "freestyle sh1t to their advantage acting like cassidy could hang with a n1gga like supernatural off the dome, sh1t got all jumbled along the way but it is what it is
1995 Jay and 1996 Jay is basically the same. Listen to In My Lifetime. That is Reasonable Doubt all the way through.
danja29
04-13-08, 09:00 PM
1995 Jay and 1996 Jay is basically the same. Listen to In My Lifetime. That is Reasonable Doubt all the way through.
Eh, maybe the remix. I think the original version, he was still getting that "jiggedy-jiggedy-Jay" sh*t out of his system. He did it a little on the remix but he flowed more on that one- "know the price, know the risks, know the wrongs, and the rights..." Prior to that, dude was soundin' like a typewriter and sh*t.
i agree....in my head, i can freestyle, but i get so hung up in my mess ups i hate trying to really come with nothing but off the top sh1t in ciphers and what not, i'd much rather hear a n1gga's structured thoughts than his ramblings, some can do it some can't, but i think if one is going to be going against the other...maybe it should be a clarification of who's doing what you know?
i never been mad at the change of definition either, but some cats twist that "freestyle sh1t to their advantage acting like cassidy could hang with a n1gga like supernatural off the dome, sh1t got all jumbled along the way but it is what it is
chu'ch
Eh, maybe the remix. I think the original version, he was still getting that "jiggedy-jiggedy-Jay" sh*t out of his system. He did it a little on the remix but he flowed more on that one- "know the price, know the risks, know the wrongs, and the rights..." Prior to that, dude was soundin' like a typewriter and sh*t.
Disagree, it was the same on the original. Listen to his verse on Time To Build from 1995 too.
Disagree, it was the same on the original. Listen to his verse on Time To Build from 1995 too.
that metamorph to rd though, name me another nikka that did this in that fashion...witty fast bars to arguably the best cd in history?...name me some cats that progressed so quickly....
Eh, maybe the remix. I think the original version, he was still getting that "jiggedy-jiggedy-Jay" sh*t out of his system. He did it a little on the remix but he flowed more on that one- "know the price, know the risks, know the wrongs, and the rights..." Prior to that, dude was soundin' like a typewriter and sh*t.
What about Dead Presidents? Son is right, he switched it up right around 95.
bugsmoran
04-13-08, 09:51 PM
how so?, the tripple time rhyme style was played out by 96 on the NY circut, i really don't think jay doing something as simple as slowing up his tempo had anything to do with nas, and especially not big
you forgot to mention jay z stepped his vocabulary up (see Illmatic) and he started rapping about hustlin and street sh!t (see ready to die)
jay z started doing joints with foxy brown (see big and lil Kim)
illmatic and ready to die heavily influenced jay z's style
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